A/C recharge woes - 10th Gen Civic Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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A/C recharge woes

Not that my Si needs it, but when it does... I went to re-charge our '16 EX-L AC with one of those STP re-chage kits...and it doesn't work...nor will they work on our Si's... Evidently, Honda is using the latest (read: More Expen$ive) refrigerant, R-1234yf , which requires one to have an EPA license to even purchase - THANKS, Honda...


Since the refrigerant isn't covered under the warranty, unless it has to be recovered/replaced as part of a warranty repair...i'm sure the bill will be sweet.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 04:30 PM
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It's not just the Si, it's all of them. . .

Rumour has it that a recharge of the system will run a guy about $600 USD as the 1234yf refrigerant is profoundly expensive and requires very dedicated equipment for the service. I only know of a few shops locally (suburban Minneapolis) that have the equipment; right now it's only the newer cars that use this product and the dealership is generally the only one with the machine.

Good luck.

Mike

Just because you can does not mean that you should.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 07:39 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by barenaked View Post
It's not just the Si, it's all of them. . .

Rumour has it that a recharge of the system will run a guy about $600 USD as the 1234yf refrigerant is profoundly expensive and requires very dedicated equipment for the service. I only know of a few shops locally (suburban Minneapolis) that have the equipment; right now it's only the newer cars that use this product and the dealership is generally the only one with the machine.

Good luck.

Mike

DAAAYYYUUUUMMMM.... Well, if that's the case, and there is/was a leak...it should be covered by warranty, but evidently it isn't. Always thinking of the bottom line, eh Honda?
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 08:18 AM
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I think you're looking at this from the wrong point of view. Honda isn't trying to screw anyone; the whole industry has been moving toward using 1234yf since 2011/2012, and the US EPA is mandating its use on all new vehicles sold in the USA beginning in 2021, just two years from now. It is more than 1,000 times less of a pollutant than HF134-A is, and in many cases the car requires much less refrigerant than a 134 system.

Auto A/C systems have historically been exempt from new car warranties. They're fickle and fragile and subject to commonplace damage. Your new car warranty is meant to protect you against defects in materials and workmanship, and with the A/C system it can be hard to differentiate between damage and a defect. The Honda new car warranty is very consistent with the rest of the industry and doesn't exclude things that other brands cover.

In my 20's and 30's I was an ASE Certified Technician and worked in a variety of small and medium sized repair shops. In all of them we welcomed A/C system repairs as they are very lucrative, but there was NO warranty to any A/C repair in any of the shops I worked. The system has multiple points of failure and we'd repair what was obvious, but often enough there would be more than one leak point or dubious component, and short of replacing every piece of the system on every repair it was easier to make the repair with a taillight warranty.

Mike

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by barenaked View Post
I think you're looking at this from the wrong point of view. Honda isn't trying to screw anyone; the whole industry has been moving toward using 1234yf since 2011/2012, and the US EPA is mandating its use on all new vehicles sold in the USA beginning in 2021, just two years from now. It is more than 1,000 times less of a pollutant than HF134-A is, and in many cases the car requires much less refrigerant than a 134 system.

Auto A/C systems have historically been exempt from new car warranties. They're fickle and fragile and subject to commonplace damage. Your new car warranty is meant to protect you against defects in materials and workmanship, and with the A/C system it can be hard to differentiate between damage and a defect. The Honda new car warranty is very consistent with the rest of the industry and doesn't exclude things that other brands cover.

In my 20's and 30's I was an ASE Certified Technician and worked in a variety of small and medium sized repair shops. In all of them we welcomed A/C system repairs as they are very lucrative, but there was NO warranty to any A/C repair in any of the shops I worked. The system has multiple points of failure and we'd repair what was obvious, but often enough there would be more than one leak point or dubious component, and short of replacing every piece of the system on every repair it was easier to make the repair with a taillight warranty.

Mike

I sort of figured it was something along those lines (just easier to point a finger ). Still...it's getting to the point of repairs getting outrageous (er). It's easier to budget a car payment than a repair. I don't want to trade/sell every time tho...lol... I just figured it should have held up more than 2 yrs, is all.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mrdjman View Post
It's easier to budget a car payment than a repair.
It's funny you should say it that way as it's exactly what I've been thinking too. While the new cars don't need nearly as much care as they did 20 years ago (3,000 mile oil changes and 90,000 mile timing belt services come to mind) and should last longer, there is so much electrical and electronic BS happening in the cars that I worry that as they age, the things that will break will be expensive, difficult, or prohibitive to repair/replace.

Three weeks ago I crashed my 2017 Hatchback. The actual body damage was about $5,500 of the total cost of repair, the rest was the (3) airbags, airbag controller, sensors, all (5) seat belt tensioners, the new RF seat, new dashboard, and new headliner. The ultimate sum was $16,500, and they wrote the car off. My point is that it's all of the technology (technology which saved my wife from a great deal of bodily injury, I will add) costs to replace, and one day the infotainment will stop working, or one of the myriad sensors in the engine/powertrain, or in the car's safety systems, and it will require a profoundly expensive visit to the dealership to get it sorted out.

Is it just easier to replace them every few years and keep making a payment with the peace of mind that (mostly) everything is covered under warranty? That IS the primary advantage of leasing (something I cannot do as I put about 20,000 miles on my cars every year); a new car every few years, generally under warranty the whole time you own it, but the drawback is that you will forever be making a monthly payment to do so.

But I digress. . . I've gone WAY off topic here.

My apologies.

Mike

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by barenaked View Post
It's funny you should say it that way as it's exactly what I've been thinking too. While the new cars don't need nearly as much care as they did 20 years ago (3,000 mile oil changes and 90,000 mile timing belt services come to mind) and should last longer, there is so much electrical and electronic BS happening in the cars that I worry that as they age, the things that will break will be expensive, difficult, or prohibitive to repair/replace.

Three weeks ago I crashed my 2017 Hatchback. The actual body damage was about $5,500 of the total cost of repair, the rest was the (3) airbags, airbag controller, sensors, all (5) seat belt tensioners, the new RF seat, new dashboard, and new headliner. The ultimate sum was $16,500, and they wrote the car off. My point is that it's all of the technology (technology which saved my wife from a great deal of bodily injury, I will add) costs to replace, and one day the infotainment will stop working, or one of the myriad sensors in the engine/powertrain, or in the car's safety systems, and it will require a profoundly expensive visit to the dealership to get it sorted out.

Is it just easier to replace them every few years and keep making a payment with the peace of mind that (mostly) everything is covered under warranty? That IS the primary advantage of leasing (something I cannot do as I put about 20,000 miles on my cars every year); a new car every few years, generally under warranty the whole time you own it, but the drawback is that you will forever be making a monthly payment to do so.

But I digress. . . I've gone WAY off topic here.

My apologies.

Mike
Wow - sorry to hear about the loss, but good that no one was seriously injured. I was just thinking about that...yeah...I may go the route of perpetual car payment. In a few years, we'll probably be down to just ONE car, so it won't be as bad as it is now...
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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Well, the local dealership service dept. is telling me that it will be covered under the 3/36 warranty, unless a rock put a hole in the condenser... Guess we'll see when I take it in next week. My 'normal' mechanic told me it shouldn't surprise any of us that every 3 yrs or so the system will need servicing/recharging. Yay!!
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 05:38 PM
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 05:58 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cabeldude View Post
Interesting... Well, when I take it in next week, I will inform them that I am very aware of a known issue, and I don't expect to be charged...and I *do* expect to have the better condenser installed...


I mean, this certainly isn't as bad as knowingly installing those exploding takata airbags...but still...cut corners and cover it up...all for a buck.
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