Any chance of DCT on SI?
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We've speculated yes that the Si will get DCT... the ILX uses it currently... It would be a smart move for Honda. Who knows how much they could up the take rate on Si by offering more then just a manual...
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I'm one of those hoping the Si gets some form of auto, as otherwise I won't buy it. I'd say either the DCT or the 6 speed from the Accord (since they now share a platform) would make the most sense over a cvt, but I will take any of them.
IMO they would really increase the Si sales by adding an auto.
IMO they would really increase the Si sales by adding an auto.
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The 10th gen civic doesn't share it's platform with the current accord. The next accord will share it's platform with the 10th gen civic. It's an all new platform. The civic is the first car to use it. The new accord and CRV will be the next 2 to get it and also the next gen CRZ. just an fyi.
DCT would be my bet for the Si given it'll have similar structure and output to the ILX. Not sure honda makes a CVT strong enough to hold up to the power of the Si. I'd be ok with one of honda's quick shifting 6 speed autos as well. I would love to get an Si instead of the EX-T since they will be priced very closely most likely. But i don't want or need a manual with the amount of driving and do and the fact it's 99% stop and go city/suburb driving.
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I think the point still stands though. Yes accord isn't using it now, but its certainly been engineered with accord in mind...unless Honda intends to scrap the slushbox for CVT in the next gen accord, I would imagine the platform is compliant
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I feel like i read in a recent article they were talking about the baby NSX and said honda was planning on going full CVT or manual while acura would have the DCTs.
If i find the article again i'll post it. But, honda seems pretty dedicated to CVT and just might get rid of the 6 speeds in favor of less production cost assuming the new CVT the civic has is strong enough to use in the accord as well.
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http://www.autonews.com/article/201...-new-turbocharged-engines-8-speed-dual-clutch
Article I found from 2013. Transmission section:
Although Honda engineers and executives declined to comment on specific models, they said the automaker's transmissions will be used roughly as follows:
• Continuously variable transmissions. CVTs will become Honda's mainstay, used in its small- to mid-sized vehicles, replacing manual and automatic transmissions.
• Dual-clutch transmissions. These will be used with 2.0- to 3.0-liter engines. Some executives said the seven- and eight-speed dual-clutch transmissions may be standard equipment on some vehicles, but will be optional on others.
• Traditional automatic transmissions. These will continue to be used in larger vehicles such as the Odyssey minivan.
So... we might see the DCT as an option in the Civic si, and possibly getting pushed up to v6 accords with the next redesign?
Article I found from 2013. Transmission section:
Although Honda engineers and executives declined to comment on specific models, they said the automaker's transmissions will be used roughly as follows:
• Continuously variable transmissions. CVTs will become Honda's mainstay, used in its small- to mid-sized vehicles, replacing manual and automatic transmissions.
• Dual-clutch transmissions. These will be used with 2.0- to 3.0-liter engines. Some executives said the seven- and eight-speed dual-clutch transmissions may be standard equipment on some vehicles, but will be optional on others.
• Traditional automatic transmissions. These will continue to be used in larger vehicles such as the Odyssey minivan.
So... we might see the DCT as an option in the Civic si, and possibly getting pushed up to v6 accords with the next redesign?
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Good find. Goes with my thinking that the CVTs might not be strong enough to handle the bigger engines with the higher output and torque. Granted, since 2013 honda could have changed their minds and opted for full CVT for honda to reserve the DCT for only acura or high end sports models (Type R and above)... we will just have to wait and see... honda might let us all down and make the Si manual only again like they always have... just not sure why they'd limit sales potential like that.
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Depends on pricing and margins, I could see the Touring offering them a better margin regardless. Would be a good strategy of piling people who want auto/turbo/LED whatever into the higher margin Touring then having them 'settle' for an Si.
Sporty isn't really the sales characteristic that it once was. I'm willing to wager that More buyers will choose on the basis of technology then sporting prowess/handling/horsepower whatever
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Exactly. If Honda does again go manual exclusive Si then you can GUARANTEE the Touring will feature IDENTICAL content, maybe even a bit more (to make up for the 30 or more missing ponies).
Despite what we like to think Honda is not stupid. They know their audience better then we do. And I'm sure they observed, just I was able to observe, that technology and economy is the main driver of purchase decisions currently. The Si just doesn't square with that, and if they did bend the Si to be that car it would alienate everyone who loves the Si for the Si brand... Honda has to stay true to the Civic brand yea, but they also need to keep the Si brand healthy...
Anyone who thinks Honda is stupid for not offering an auto or CVT Si should really explain to us why Honda hasn't offered them a lucrative gig in product planning...
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I think the best argument for the Si getting an auto is the competition... pretty much all the Si competition offer either autos or DCT transmissions. Honda is one of the only companies that has stayed "pure" with the manual only Si...
That said, i really won't be shocked if honda goes either route as i know how stubborn they are about making changes to what has worked in the past for them. But in a changing world where some 80% of cars sold are auto, all the competition to the Si offer autos, and more and more of their demographic are living in urban areas where manuals could be seen as less than ideal/user friendly i think in the long term they'll need to offer an auto in order to keep the Si's sales from eventually slipping so far that they can't justify the production costs anymore.
Also to note, how they've taken the civic upmarket in terms of content, appearance and refinement it would make sense with the Type R coming over next year to standardize the Si into a new "mid range" performance slot that could appeal to just as many people as the touring model. Touring is for those that want to spend their money on features and tech and luxury while the Si model acts as the "stripped down" sport variant for those looking for less luxury and a more engaging drive. And offering an auto option of some type would put the Si in into that wider appeal.
That said, i really won't be shocked if honda goes either route as i know how stubborn they are about making changes to what has worked in the past for them. But in a changing world where some 80% of cars sold are auto, all the competition to the Si offer autos, and more and more of their demographic are living in urban areas where manuals could be seen as less than ideal/user friendly i think in the long term they'll need to offer an auto in order to keep the Si's sales from eventually slipping so far that they can't justify the production costs anymore.
Also to note, how they've taken the civic upmarket in terms of content, appearance and refinement it would make sense with the Type R coming over next year to standardize the Si into a new "mid range" performance slot that could appeal to just as many people as the touring model. Touring is for those that want to spend their money on features and tech and luxury while the Si model acts as the "stripped down" sport variant for those looking for less luxury and a more engaging drive. And offering an auto option of some type would put the Si in into that wider appeal.
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I don't think they really know until they try it out.
Also, one of the reasons that I think it hasn't been offered before is that they never really had a "performance" automatic. With DCT tech becoming more mainstream, Acura getting them in just about all their models standard, even the ILX, I could see them offering that in the Si as an option.
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When Honda first showed the 1.5T in 2013 it made 201 hp and 192 lb-ft and they had it coupled to a CVT in an ILX mule http://www.motortrend.ca/en/car-rev...e-honda-turbo-engines-future-powertrain-tech/
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Hah, also funny is that the 8DCT was in an accord sedan.
Whenever HOA comments on the Si or Type R, they swear by manual transmissions in terms of the brand's character. I don't see this changing for the 10th Gen. Ford offers manual-only on the ST, which is likely going to be the Si's closest competitor.
That said, the GTI sets the benchmark in affordable yet refined performance, which I believe Honda is aspiring to achieve here. So I wouldn't rule out DCT completely.
That said, the GTI sets the benchmark in affordable yet refined performance, which I believe Honda is aspiring to achieve here. So I wouldn't rule out DCT completely.
Does anybody know what the worldwide sales numbers are for the GTI and the Si?
If the GTI outsells the Si, and if Honda wants to reach those customers (who are not die-hard VW fanboys), then Honda will need a DCT option for the Si to compete against the GTIs that have DSG.
If the Si outsells the GTI, then I think that Honda will just keep the manual only option for the Si.
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It might be worth noting the GTI isn't the only competition that gets cross shopped with the Si that they have to compete with. Heck, they're going after entry level lux sedans in europe like the A3 and BMW even... which both offer autos of some type or DCT. You also have the tC (which i'm pretty sure the EX-T will now beat in performance, if not even the 2.0L) You could, in theory have people cross shopping things like base mustangs and camaros (i only say this because i've known people who did, it's more price point than RWD vs FWD).
I myself have even cross shopped the civic and accord... choosing the more powerful accord soley based on the fact i can get it in an auto. I know that's me, but i can't imagine i'm the only one doing it either.
One thing I found coming from a 90's Civic into new car shopping in 2012: manual transmissions have improved. Lighter clutches, more powerful engines that are harder to stall, anti-stall gizmos, rev float, and even rev-matched downshifts (370z). I think manuals are less of a hassle now than they used to be.
It will certainly be interesting to see if Honda adds an automatic option to the Si. Either way the MT lovers are stuck with either the base model Civic or an Si... or the Type R if they can swing it.
It will certainly be interesting to see if Honda adds an automatic option to the Si. Either way the MT lovers are stuck with either the base model Civic or an Si... or the Type R if they can swing it.
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