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Discussion Starter #1
Over the weekend, engine configuration has been confirmed. ofcourse there's no power numbers yet.

With 6-speed manual transmission
•LX with 2.0-liter
•EX with 1.5-liter turbo

With CVT

•LX with 2.0-liter
•LX with 2.0-liter and Sensing
•EX with 2.0-liter
•EX with 2.0-liter and Sensing
•EX with 1.5-liter turbo
•EX with 1.5-liter turbo and Sensing
•EX-L with 1.5-liter turbo
•EX-L with 1.5-liter turbo and Sensing
•EX-L with 1.5-liter turbo, Navigation and Sensing
•Touring with 1.5-liter turbo


information copied from - indianautosblog.com

so what do you guys think?

I think there's a chance that the SI version will get the 2.0L (I believe this engine is in the Type R w/o the turbo ofcourse)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
what are reasons one would choose 2.0 over 1.5 Turbo?
different people have different reasons. for me, its a reliability issue, less crap that can break after the warranty period. the way a NA engine drives/sounds.

I like my cars to last over 200k miles. My current car is a 2003 Honda civic LX @ 185k now. part replaced were all wear/tear parts (pads, tires, fluids, belts).

I would love another car that does the same. so im looking to finally replace it with a 2016 civic SI if it comes with the 2.0L....if not i'll just get the LX manual version.
 

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Makes sense. Even though it's a honda, i agree that the 2.0 is likely to be more reliable.

Also, I'm envious you got your 2003 to 185k. My 2002 got to about 130k before the transmission died.
 

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Even though torque and HP numbers for the 1.5T engine in the civic haven't been revealed, it can be approximated quite well

If you look at the Honda Jade or Stepwgn that uses this engine, you'll see a HP of 148 and Torque of 150. So HP increased by 5 units and torque by 21 units over the current gen. Thats an improvement of 3.5% and 16%, respectively.


I know this is disappointing to many, including myself (although I wont be complaining as the torque is 35% more than my 2001 Civic :)). It definitely wont come close to class leading. It shouldnt come as a shock because Honda markets themselves for their reliability and efficiency. Also, this will be a global car and the rest of the world doesn't care for power like we do so Honda had to compromise. Honda's attitude is likely that it just needs to look sporty to be good enough for most consumers.

Instead of tuning the engine for better numbers, we'll have a well crafted engine that I expect will offer a class leading MPG. My guess is 34 city 43 Highway 36 combined. I also think we'll get a small price drop due to loss in weight, the strong dollar, and the civic's need to compete in a crowded global segment.


EDIT: If you dont think the civic will share the engine of the jade and stepwgn, there still no way Honda will come close to the hp and torque of the Mazda 3. It just wouldn't be wise for Honda to shift their attention into performance. They've got a good thing going for them by consumers that want a reliable efficient car and the civic will stay true to that above all else.

EDIT2: Disregard everything I said. I've thought about it some more and I realized that there's no way Honda can offer a 1.5T with such meager performance, especially with a 2.0 in the picture too. the 2.0 will probably see a HP around 150 and the 1.5t much more than that. It's so easy to rationalize one way of thinking that I got carried away in the trade off of reliability and efficiency vs performance.
 

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I feel like the civic will have to get a price drop. With all the new trims and engines and the sensing stuff, keeping the car at the current price and assuming $800-$1000 for the engine optioned to 1.5T and the sensing being $1000 the prices across the range would jump pretty dramatically.

I've gone back and forth in my own mind regarding the 1.5T... everyone including myself is benching the ford focus and mazda3 for performance (both handling and speed) Mazda manages just fine to have both performance and outstanding fuel economy, they aren't necessarily a trade off in this segment anymore. I figure if anything, the 2.0 and 1.5T will have the same Horsepower but the turbo will make much higher torque numbers. It doesn't make much sense from a marketing standpoint to have the 1.5T be tons more powerful and less fuel efficient and be the only engine on upper trim levels. You want leather? Screw your gas mileage. That doesn't make sense...

The last time the civic saw an increase in power it was from 120 up to 140... we can assume that it'll be hitting closer to 160 which with weight savings would put it in line to have class leading performance and still manage 40-41mpg. The difference will be the torque with the 2.0 probably getting around 140tq and the turbo making closer to 160tq. But that's just my thinking on it. It wouldn't take much to get the civic class leading, and yes, mpg and handling have always been honda's top priorities over power and outright speed, but we've seen so much on this car already that breaks the mold of the civic and honda in general that i think we might actually be pleasantly surprised by performance. Lets not forget the Mazda3 and VW Golf are both global cars as well and offer their more powerful engines in europe and asia as well.

Especially given the fact that Honda America took the lead on designing this car from the ground up, we might see them catering to american taste (in terms of power) more than previously done in the civic. I have no doubts we will see 41+ mpg highway mileage (at least on the turbo if not both engines) and probably class leading handling and fun to drive character. The engines and power will at least put it in line with the top performers if not beat them. Honda does amazing things with it's weight savings.
 

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$18,000 as a base price does not seem unreasonable and a 1-2k price jump isn't too bad for the additional torque and sensing system. Most people who wants reliability will go for the 2,0 so that's 1k taken out of the extras cost. The $18,000 price estimate may drop as we approach the release date so who knows, maybe Honda will drop it a bit to compensate for the 1.5T and sensing options.
 

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Even with those torque numbers of the two engines, where along the power band they make that torque is another thing to be looked into, even horsepower numbers will be worth looking into and of course we should expect to see better lower end torque.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
what are the chances that Civics will get Apple Play & Google Drive (or what ever the names are)
 

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what are the chances that Civics will get Apple Play & Google Drive (or what ever the names are)
It will be available on EX and above trims, just like the accord. It needs the 7 inch touch screen to be compatible... the 5 inch iMid on the base LX is too small and doesn't have touch functions. So 100% change EX and above trims.
 

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$18,000 as a base price does not seem unreasonable and a 1-2k price jump isn't too bad for the additional torque and sensing system. Most people who wants reliability will go for the 2,0 so that's 1k taken out of the extras cost. The $18,000 price estimate may drop as we approach the release date so who knows, maybe Honda will drop it a bit to compensate for the 1.5T and sensing options.
I agree... dropping the overall base price of the car to make sure that the other trims stay in relative comparison to the current cars price. Also, they are saving money on the platform now since its global and going to be used on the accord and CRV, thats all cost saving that turns around and goes into the new tech and features of the car to lower cost but keep profits the same.
 

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I feel like the civic will have to get a price drop. With all the new trims and engines and the sensing stuff, keeping the car at the current price and assuming $800-$1000 for the engine optioned to 1.5T and the sensing being $1000 the prices across the range would jump pretty dramatically.

I've gone back and forth in my own mind regarding the 1.5T... everyone including myself is benching the ford focus and mazda3 for performance (both handling and speed) Mazda manages just fine to have both performance and outstanding fuel economy, they aren't necessarily a trade off in this segment anymore. I figure if anything, the 2.0 and 1.5T will have the same Horsepower but the turbo will make much higher torque numbers. It doesn't make much sense from a marketing standpoint to have the 1.5T be tons more powerful and less fuel efficient and be the only engine on upper trim levels. You want leather? Screw your gas mileage. That doesn't make sense...

The last time the civic saw an increase in power it was from 120 up to 140... we can assume that it'll be hitting closer to 160 which with weight savings would put it in line to have class leading performance and still manage 40-41mpg. The difference will be the torque with the 2.0 probably getting around 140tq and the turbo making closer to 160tq. But that's just my thinking on it. It wouldn't take much to get the civic class leading, and yes, mpg and handling have always been honda's top priorities over power and outright speed, but we've seen so much on this car already that breaks the mold of the civic and honda in general that i think we might actually be pleasantly surprised by performance. Lets not forget the Mazda3 and VW Golf are both global cars as well and offer their more powerful engines in europe and asia as well.

Especially given the fact that Honda America took the lead on designing this car from the ground up, we might see them catering to american taste (in terms of power) more than previously done in the civic. I have no doubts we will see 41+ mpg highway mileage (at least on the turbo if not both engines) and probably class leading handling and fun to drive character. The engines and power will at least put it in line with the top performers if not beat them. Honda does amazing things with it's weight savings.
That was really informative and you made some really good arguments for the engine's specs. It's really nice having people like you on the forums that know what they're talking about. I now agree that Honda will step it up with their 1.5T performance, much more than what I said previously. Just like mazda and the new cruze from chevy, honda can match improvements in performance with efficiency.

40+ highway MPG is a significant achievement, especially the 9th gen only getting 34 MPG. That's an improvement of at least 6 MPG in 5 years.
I do have one question though. Will the turbo help the city or highway numbers more? From what i've seen, it helps the highway numbers tremendously while leaving the city numbers almost unchanged.
 

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That was really informative and you made some really good arguments for the engine's specs. It's really nice having people like you on the forums that know what they're talking about. I now agree that Honda will step it up with their 1.5T performance, much more than what I said previously. Just like mazda and the new cruze from chevy, honda can match improvements in performance with efficiency.

40+ highway MPG is a significant achievement, especially the 9th gen only getting 34 MPG. That's an improvement of at least 6 MPG in 5 years.
I do have one question though. Will the turbo help the city or highway numbers more? From what i've seen, it helps the highway numbers tremendously while leaving the city numbers almost unchanged.
Thank you! I try and approach my arguments from a well informed standpoint. Both having owned 5 civics and also using my own marketing education to make guesses that are both optimistic and realistic.

In terms of the 1.5T helping mileage, it'll probably be mostly highway mileage which will still raise the combined average for the car. The issue with city mileage in any car (other than hybrids) is the stop and go and constantly having to get up to speed is what kills mileage. With a turbo you have more low end torque which means you don't have to mash the peddle to get some power (like the current and every previous civic) BUT, as soon as that turbo has to wind up it effectively kills the efficiency of the engine. The engines smaller size will increase fuel economy overall.. the turbo helps with power but kills efficiency in stop and go situations (unless you don't wind it up and drive like an old lady). Most likely we'll see maybe a 1mpg increase to city or it'll stay the same as the current car. But the highway mileage should go up 1-3 mpg on average which for most people is where it counts.

I do 90% city driving as i live in the suburbs. Stop and go constantly i average about 26-27mpg in my civic coupe. The new engines (including the 2.0) will offer more torque and lower end grunt so that you don't have to floor it to get up to speed anymore, but the city mileage will always suffer without electric assist to save fuel. The turbo and CVT are really there to help cruising speed mileage more than anything.

I don't care as much about mpg for myself as i don't drive that much (i live across the street from work and only make weekly trips for groceries) but i do like to go driving in the country occasionally. Ideally i'd like to see the civic do 0-60 in around 7.5-7.8 seconds (about where it's main competition is at). But i really really want it to shine in the corners. Flat handling, no body roll, sticky tires that keep it in line etc. The current car pulls a modest .83 on skidpad test and i'd like to see it hit .88 or .89 like the accord does (as well as the Mazda3 and focus)
 

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The 1.5T could make 180-200HP pretty easy if its tuned for it and using premium gas. More importantly, these smaller FI engines tend to make big TQ very low in their rev ranges, so around town performance will be great.

Now whether Honda chooses to keep it economy focused is another story. Some owners might not want to pay the premium of the fuel and maintenance requirements, so the 1.5 might be detuned for fuel economy and longevity while whatever the Si has under the hood, tuned for performance.

Im also hoping Honda will benchmark the Mazda3 for the handling and driving dynamics because those cars are in a class of their own when the roads get twisty.
 

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what are the chances that Civics will get Apple Play & Google Drive (or what ever the names are)
Very likely. And its Android Auto. I think the new HR-V, Pilot, Fit will get Android Auto/CarPlay as an update; and Accord (already confirmed), Civic, 16' CR-V will get it right away.
 

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The 1.5T could make 180-200HP pretty easy if its tuned for it and using premium gas. More importantly, these smaller FI engines tend to make big TQ very low in their rev ranges, so around town performance will be great.

Now whether Honda chooses to keep it economy focused is another story. Some owners might not want to pay the premium of the fuel and maintenance requirements, so the 1.5 might be detuned for fuel economy and longevity while whatever the Si has under the hood, tuned for performance.

Im also hoping Honda will benchmark the Mazda3 for the handling and driving dynamics because those cars are in a class of their own when the roads get twisty.
Well the 1.5T won't be tuned that high in the regular civic.. .but that's why we think the Si could get the same 1.5T because it is capable of numbers similar to the current 2.4 it uses with better fuel economy. It'll be tuned down to be more in line with the 2.0 in horsepower, just have more torque. But if the Si gets this engine itll get tuned up to probably 210 or so and about 197 torque (when motortrend first tested this engine that's what it was tuned to i believe) so more than enough oomph for the Si to gain some speed.

And i totally agree that the Mazda 3 should be benchmarked. It and the ford focus are the two best handling cars in the class without being dedicated sport models. They're also the two quickest to 60. More than enough evidence that speed and mpg aren't exclusive of one another.
 

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Im actually hoping the Si gets a slightly detuned Earth Dreams K20 iVTEC Turbo from the CTR, not a 1.5. I think if the Si is going to be competitive in the sport compact market, 200-210HP is going to cut it.

250HP, mechanical LSD, close ratio 6mt and Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Sign me up.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
agree with people above. the NON-SI civics will never see 160HP+ in either engine. (atleast not the 2016/2017 models)

so I'm hoping, Honda can match the mazda 3 2.0L of 155Hp. and 148 lb-ft Torque. then the 1.5T will get 20-25ish more Lb-ft.

and hoping REALLY hoping. Honda puts the 2.0L in the Si, and atleast match the power/torque to the BRZ/FRS. this is an easy task/walk in the park, the 8thgen civic had it.

this way, for 11th gen civic, they can up the power in the NON-SI w/ 1.5T and just get rid 2.0L engine. and slap a detune-turbo in the SI on the 2.0L....and boost to about 230-240hp as easy as 1,2,3.
 
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