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Discussion Starter #1
Their words, not mine...

"The new Civic will be, flat out, the most dynamic, the most technologically advanced and the most refined and stylish Civic we've ever made," said John Mendel, executive vice president, Automobile Division, American Honda Motor Co., Inc. "In every way, this will be an epic Civic."
 

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After seeing the recent Honda Civic concept shown in New York, a statement like this seems to hold even more weight as what they did in New York was a great change, coming from what we got with both the 8th and 9th gen.
 

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It's a big statement but I believe it to be true. They have pushed themselves to do something better than before. The Civic is such a big nameplate that it deserves a lot of attention like they are giving it. Should be a hit.
 

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At this point I don't think they have a choice

The Civic needs some more momentum with a stronger and fun product.

Hopefully they'll deliver.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
yea but who says a stronger, more powerful, youth oriented product sells? Scion FR-S is standing right next door with all the proof you need.

Look for me all civics should be Si hatcbacks, but you know what, little old ladies and young familes don't want or need those products. It call all be summed up with Cui Bono, who benefits, Honda vs Us, Honda will always win...
 

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It's good to see Honda taking a more aggressive approach to the market. They've been lagging behind everyone else in what they have been delivering. Hopefully they stick with it which at this point seems true.
 

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yea but who says a stronger, more powerful, youth oriented product sells? Scion FR-S is standing right next door with all the proof you need.

Look for me all civics should be Si hatcbacks, but you know what, little old ladies and young familes don't want or need those products. It call all be summed up with Cui Bono, who benefits, Honda vs Us, Honda will always win...
The little old ladies and cardigan clad males buy the Jazz (Fit) in bucket loads here in New Zealand. While at a cafe today, I saw one gray haired lady go past in a Jazz RS.

I think the change in Honda's strategy demonstrated by the NY Coupe concept, or the Concept B of last year, is paramount; - Honda have lost significant market share in many world markets over the years. Here in New Zealand, Civics, Accords, City, Preludes etc. were at one time popular models. Not any longer. Perhaps in the US the current 9th gen Civic and Accord sedans are great 'bread and butter' models to the undiscerning masses, but they are conservative designs for conservative buyers. If Honda had continued to pander to this demographic, they would eventually end up being a major manufacturer of mobility scooters. Bring on the 10th Gen Civics and Accords!
 

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The little old ladies and cardigan clad males buy the Jazz (Fit) in bucket loads here in New Zealand. While at a cafe today, I saw one gray haired lady go past in a Jazz RS.

I think the change in Honda's strategy demonstrated by the NY Coupe concept, or the Concept B of last year, is paramount; - Honda have lost significant market share in many world markets over the years. Here in New Zealand, Civics, Accords, City, Preludes etc. were at one time popular models. Not any longer. Perhaps in the US the current 9th gen Civic and Accord sedans are great 'bread and butter' models to the undiscerning masses, but they are conservative designs for conservative buyers. If Honda had continued to pander to this demographic, they would eventually end up being a major manufacturer of mobility scooters. Bring on the 10th Gen Civics and Accords!
Taking a sportier design route without actually going full on sport is a good play, Toyota did that with the corolla and it turned out great with sales. But it also may not be the greatest example.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The little old ladies and cardigan clad males buy the Jazz (Fit) in bucket loads here in New Zealand. While at a cafe today, I saw one gray haired lady go past in a Jazz RS.

I think the change in Honda's strategy demonstrated by the NY Coupe concept, or the Concept B of last year, is paramount; - Honda have lost significant market share in many world markets over the years. Here in New Zealand, Civics, Accords, City, Preludes etc. were at one time popular models. Not any longer. Perhaps in the US the current 9th gen Civic and Accord sedans are great 'bread and butter' models to the undiscerning masses, but they are conservative designs for conservative buyers. If Honda had continued to pander to this demographic, they would eventually end up being a major manufacturer of mobility scooters. Bring on the 10th Gen Civics and Accords!
You don't get to pick your demographics, demographics pick you. All I'm saying is that Sporty is irrelevant to 95% of buyers, unfortunately this industry operates at the lowest common denominator. I just don't expect anything beyond a marginal improvement in our current Si's performance for exactly that reason...
 

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You don't get to pick your demographics, demographics pick you. All I'm saying is that Sporty is irrelevant to 95% of buyers, unfortunately this industry operates at the lowest common denominator. I just don't expect anything beyond a marginal improvement in our current Si's performance for exactly that reason...
I think you are right that the demographics pick you, however I disagree that sporty is irrelevant to 95% of buyers - cars are to a great extent a fashion item - and I think the broad flow of evolving automotive design language eventually becomes part of the buyers conscious or unconscious emotional decision about being or feeling 'trendy'. Honda's conservative designs have now fallen behind the 'broad flow' evolution of their competitors offerings, resulting in their market share suffering. I used to shudder when I saw some of Honda's concept models from the last five years - it seemed to me whoever were in charge of the design studios were out of touch. Thankfully, the Civic coupe concept and Concept B show fresh and desirable design is back on the drawing board, hopefully translating into production cars we are excited to buy (again).
 

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Taking a sportier design route without actually going full on sport is a good play, Toyota did that with the corolla and it turned out great with sales. But it also may not be the greatest example.
I think you are right. Honda New Zealand are having great success with the new Jazz (Fit) range (segment leader), which, with exception of the base 'S' model, are being specifically marketed as 'sporty' (RS, RS Sport, RS Limited, RS Mugen). It's mainly the RS models that are being seen out on the road. It just needs to translate now, into Civic, Accord etc.
 

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I think you are right. Honda New Zealand are having great success with the new Jazz (Fit) range (segment leader), which, with exception of the base 'S' model, are being specifically marketed as 'sporty' (RS, RS Sport, RS Limited, RS Mugen). It's mainly the RS models that are being seen out on the road. It just needs to translate now, into Civic, Accord etc.
It's part of a good mass market approach.
Only enthusiasts would pay for real performance, the rest don't need or care for it in this market. And we all know it costs more to go fast than look the part :D
 

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I think that many auto makers are torn between two design philosophies. One philosophy is to make a vehicle with conservative styling that can appeal to as many people as possible. This can end up not attracting many people though because it doesn't take enough risk to really excite people and hook them on the car.

The other philosophy is to take more risks with design to get a smaller segment of the market excited. Those people will love the vehicle and be likely to buy it, however this also could alienate other buyers who don't like the design, or are not comfortable with less conservatively designed vehicles.

With a car like the Civic Honda has to walk a middle path between these two philosophies. From what we have seen so far, I think the company is doing a great job.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I think you are right that the demographics pick you, however I disagree that sporty is irrelevant to 95% of buyers - cars are to a great extent a fashion item - and I think the broad flow of evolving automotive design language eventually becomes part of the buyers conscious or unconscious emotional decision about being or feeling 'trendy'. Honda's conservative designs have now fallen behind the 'broad flow' evolution of their competitors offerings, resulting in their market share suffering. I used to shudder when I saw some of Honda's concept models from the last five years - it seemed to me whoever were in charge of the design studios were out of touch. Thankfully, the Civic coupe concept and Concept B show fresh and desirable design is back on the drawing board, hopefully translating into production cars we are excited to buy (again).
One conclusion I have come to over that last 5 year period, car design has shifted focus to China. Honda has been telegraphing their moves at the Shanghai show for years now, granted I agree the cars are hideous, I'm just saying that the rest of the world is getting stuck with cars designed to appease the Chinese...
 

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Have to focus where the profits are, either way they know their long standing history will help them out in the process, to some extent. Still many loyalists to these well established brands
 

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Epic Fail production "tone down".

My wish is to have HPD equipped Black Si-R Coupe (in concept skin) with Leather and 6M. 19 inch wheels and Brembo brakes. Equipped with 280HP 2.0L Turbo VTEC. That is all. Will pay 300 a month for 10 years starting June 2, 2016.

OR

Stock Black Si Coupe (in production skin) with bolstered seats and 6M. 18 inch wheels and factory brakes. Equipped with MINIMUM 240HP 2.0L Turbo VTEC. Will pay 250 a month for 8 years starting June 2, 2016.

OR

I'll take the bus.
 
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