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Discussion Starter #1
Road and Track does a First Drive of the new hatchback:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/a31556/2017-honda-civic-hatchback-first-drive/

Direct quote from the article:

Not that the six-speed manual is perfect—Honda's maddening rev-hang on upshifts is here in a big way. Shifting near redline on hard acceleration, the engine sometimes surges for a full second with your foot off the accelerator and the clutch depressed.

I drove an SI way back in '08, and immediately noticed the "rev hang" with the "fly-by-wire" setup. You would think that in the years since, the programmers could alleviate this, but I guess it's just too hard. I prefer the lighter coupe over the hatchback, but the preferred drivetrain (for me) is the same - 1.5 turbo with 6MT. Usually there is some "method to the madness" for such weirdness as the rev hang, but it has eluded me...and Honda, it appears.
 

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Most likely they know what to do to fix it... but it's possible that the benefits are outweighed by negatives such a change might make. I'm not an expert, but if there was a logical fix, that didn't cause other problems, honda would've done it on the 10th gens i think.
 

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Most likely they know what to do to fix it... but it's possible that the benefits are outweighed by negatives such a change might make. I'm not an expert, but if there was a logical fix, that didn't cause other problems, honda would've done it on the 10th gens i think.
Usually that's the case especially when it wont impact the bottom line since at the end of the day this wont be a deal breaker for the many out there. Instead it's something most people will live with til a fix comes out. I sure wouldn't mind waiting.
 

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probably some sort of emissions thing.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Don't worry, Hondata Flashpro will help this go away.
LOL - it also makes $700 go away! :surprise: Then again, that's probably cheaper than fabricating a mechanical direct linkage to the throttle body, and just bypass the ECU, which may not be possible with DI. Curious - how does the Flashpro get rid of it? What parameter(s) does it change? Would Hondata sell a stripped down (cheaper) version that would get rid of the hang, without all the other bells and whistles? Curious minds want to know. :nerd:
 

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There is a setting in Flash Pro that deals with rev hang.But Flash Pro also will unlock more HP on the 1.5-T.This issue was a problem with the 12 SI but after Vitaliy tuned my SI the rev hang was gone plus extra ponies.
 
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This is how the buddy club Throttle Cable Booster worked.

"This device helps alleviate throttle lag the DBW systems typically expierence. On the dyno, we have noticed that at full throttle on DBW systems, the throttle plate is not fully opened at 100% WOT(wide open throttle). Like a traditional "throttle cable" based system, when you floor the gas pedal, your throttle plate is opened 100%. On a DWB system, we are seeing a common percentage of 90-94% on WOT. This unit will correct this and allow you full potential for your DBW equipped vehicle. No more swapping back to a throttle cable based system. "

As DBW is computer controlled, you can set the perimeters on the TB differently.
 

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Rev hang is a ECU influenced condition as far as I know.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
This is how the buddy club Throttle Cable Booster worked.

As DBW is computer controlled, you can set the perimeters on the TB differently.
Rev hang is a ECU influenced condition as far as I know.
You both are correct, it's entirely software driven, and that's why the rev hang is so maddening! I just wish there was a cheaper way to bypass. I'm not really interested in making more power, I just want to make it more driveable, that's all.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That's my take, and I don't really want a "tuning" for more power, just better driveability. $700 for deleting, disabling, or bypassing the "rev hang" code? There has to be an easier solution. :(
 

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Flashpro comes with loaded calibrations you can simply flash to your ECU. So no, you will not HAVE to get a tune. But as you are buying flashpro, and a tune will add so much more HP, why not take that extra step?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Flashpro comes with loaded calibrations you can simply flash to your ECU. So no, you will not HAVE to get a tune. But as you are buying flashpro, and a tune will add so much more HP, why not take that extra step?
Sounds inviting, but does that extra step require taking the car to a dyno center somewhere, and doing runs, followed by parameter tweaking, doing more pulls, etc? Don't get me wrong, I have a Power Commander module on my motorcycle, which got rid of the decel pop, but big difference between $150 and $700. More HP is always good, but really I just want to get rid of the ?.>)%@$ rev hang while shifting the 6MT! I guess you couldn't sell me one, let me simply flash a pre-loaded calibration to my ECU, then return for refund, huh? :x
 

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...$700 for deleting, disabling, or bypassing the "rev hang" code?...
Welcome to the world of DBW.

When I went from a 94 single cam to an 07 Si sedan the hang drove me nuts. Now after driving the Si for over a year when I'm bouncing back and forth between the Si and the Civic Sport I'm used to it - my driving pattern has already been adjusted.

I'm kinda with you on the cost being crappy however you are getting your moneys worth
 

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Discussion Starter #17
After driving non-DBW manual transmissions since the 60's, I guess I'll have to adjust my "three-pedal-dance" timing appropriately. :|
 

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2009 accord K-series experience

Hey guys, as a honda enthusiast, I just wanted to share my experience with rev hang on my 09 accord manual trans. I was also frustrated with "rev hang" for a while. Previously, it was weird in that sometimes it seemed to not be an issue as long as I waited until at least 3,500 rpm to shift / had a decent amount of forward momentum. Its was when I tried to shift quickly at less than that, sometimes it seemed the engine/trans would buck, so to speak.

One major fix I found for this issue was actually, believe it or not, doing a valve adjustment. I now curse myself for waiting until 150,000 miles to do that. I found both the intake and exhaust valves to be really tight. For whatever reason, opening them up allowed for smother, faster shifting, despite any rev hang. I suspect honda sets the valve clearance to absolute minimum at the factory to minimize noise. Opening up the valves does add a bit of noise / click / chattering sound, which possibly would throw some buyers.
I definitely recommend buying the helm manual and watching some you tube videos before attempting to diy a valve adjustment. You definitely also want bent feeler gauges to assist with getting them perfectly flat against the top of the valves, especially if your intake side has fuel injectors in the way (like my k-series). Make sure you replace the valve cover gasket, use honda bond where indicated in the manual, let dry 24 hours. Oil will leak out the back of the engine while you have the valve cover off, so place rags to catch it or expect an oil smell until it burns off. If oil smell persists, re-check valve cover bolt torque / check for valve cover gasket for leaks. Be careful not to set the gap too large or they will be really noisy. Too tight and you’ll burn a valve, so maybe leave it up to a professional if you aren’t mechanically experienced at all, but it’s not that difficult a job and doesn’t require expensive tools, like an impact gun. Just make sure you have the feeler gauges flat on the top of the valve and the drag is snug / a medium / fair amount of resistance, they shouldn’t be too easy to slide in and out. If you can’t slide them in at all, you’re too tight.

I also had my vehicle tuned a xenocron tuning solutions with k-tuner software. BTW that was by far the best money spent on any performance mod. I’d say if you have an aftermarket intake or more, a dyno tune is a must. They remap your whole air input. Those guys at xenocron do an excellent job there. However, I’m not sure that the tune affected the rev hang much, if at all, but it certainly made the car much more responsive and faster. Again, the rev hang wasn’t much of an issue anyway (post my valve adjustment).

Good luck
 

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Also, in addition to my above post, when shifting from (especially from 1st to 2nd, when the hang was the largest issue), if I keep my foot on the accelerator until the clutch pedal is about halfway depressed, it results in a smoother shift / I can release it into second faster than if I removed my foot completely off the accelerator before beginning to push the clutch down. This may be why people say rev hang isn’t an issue at high rpm. I think that might not have to do with the RPM, but the fact that they are racing it and leaving their foot on the accelerator while starting to push the clutch down. I think trying to be too perfect with shifting (pulling totally off the accelerator, before beginning to push in the clutch) is more jerky, while being kind of quick and dirty about it actually seems smoother (if you get the timing right). It also helps you keep momentum / is faster, since you are accelerating into shifting. I have 150,000 miles on the original clutch and no wear issues. My clutch fluid level is still near full fill from the factory, which to me reads that the clutch wear is still near new. I’m guessing it’s similar to brakes in that as the pad wears, the fluid level drops. Therefore, I don’t think I’m wearing it out excessively by doing that. You obviously want to be completely off the accelerator before the clutch pedal hits the floor (or you slip it and have some serious reving happening).
 
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