[Civic X News]

Recently we've seen at least two renders of the 2016 Civic Sedan Type R'd, is there an appetite for a Civic Sedan Type R?

Granted two renders are far from conclusive proof, but what it does indicate to us is that people are at least contemplating the idea.

Then again it could simply be ease of use, Civic Sedan images are readily available. But we have seen the Civic Hatch out and about on the 'Ring lending its basic shape. Late last year we saw several renders come from de-camo'd Civic mules which gave us a cursory look at the Sedan. That option is still available with the Civic Hatch.

Are these renders a sign of genuine interest from Civic Nation or just a red herring?

We're not sure but we are leaning towards the latter. Realistically if Honda does want to sell several CTR derivatives they're going to need volume and demand. The only North American data we have to go on is from the Integra Type R, from '97 to '01 there were a mere 3,823 Integra Type R's sold in all of North America. That's just not going to get the job done...

 

[RobbJK88]

There's a reason why high performance variants are usually relegated to one body style... the Golf R is only in 5 door guise (not 3 door)... even Subaru condensed the WRX lineup... same could be said for the outgoing Lancer Evo (even though they had a hatchback variant they could have used). They usually sell in such low numbers that making multiple body styles only acts to raise production cost and water down sales. A $30k + civic is going to be a hard enough sell as it is... not saying a sedan version might never happen here, but it depends on how well the hatch does. If people like the hatch alot and it sells in good numbers they'll continue to use just the hatch variant... if the hatch royally bombs in sales, then they might attempt a coupe or sedan type R as a last try to garner CTR sales numbers that justify production cost.

 

[Smith]

There's a reason why high performance variants are usually relegated to one body style... the Golf R is only in 5 door guise (not 3 door)... even Subaru condensed the WRX lineup... same could be said for the outgoing Lancer Evo (even though they had a hatchback variant they could have used). They usually sell in such low numbers that making multiple body styles only acts to raise production cost and water down sales. A $30k + civic is going to be a hard enough sell as it is... not saying a sedan version might never happen here, but it depends on how well the hatch does. If people like the hatch alot and it sells in good numbers they'll continue to use just the hatch variant... if the hatch royally bombs in sales, then they might attempt a coupe or sedan type R as a last try to garner CTR sales numbers that justify production cost.

That's what I was thinking, they need to have single performance model and i'm not confident that the sedan is going to be it although it would be cool. Plus Honda seems quick to adjust accordingly to the response they get from customers in order to save a product.

I rather have a Type R Hatch.

 

[4Tires]

Would people who are interested in a sedan even want a Type R version of it? Probably not enough to justify the cost of production. Can't imagine people wanting to go on track with a sedan.

 

[CanGuy]

I'd have to look at both body types. Both look good from what I can currently envision. I like the little red details in the white Type R render on this thread.

Ultimately I would say that I would tend towards the hatchback only because it seems to me that would offer a little bit more cargo space. If cargo space is equal, I would just go on looks, and that would probably lead me to the sedan.

Honestly, I don't think they are going to make two though.

 

[Smartie]

There's a reason why high performance variants are usually relegated to one body style... the Golf R is only in 5 door guise (not 3 door)... even Subaru condensed the WRX lineup... same could be said for the outgoing Lancer Evo (even though they had a hatchback variant they could have used). They usually sell in such low numbers that making multiple body styles only acts to raise production cost and water down sales. A $30k + civic is going to be a hard enough sell as it is... not saying a sedan version might never happen here, but it depends on how well the hatch does. If people like the hatch alot and it sells in good numbers they'll continue to use just the hatch variant... if the hatch royally bombs in sales, then they might attempt a coupe or sedan type R as a last try to garner CTR sales numbers that justify production cost.

You are right... but there are exceptions... somewhat. The Audi RS3 is sold as both Sedan and Hatchback versions. And Audi has also sold the RS4 in sedan, wagon and cabrio (before A5) alongside one another. For this gen they're supposed to be selling RS4 saloon and avant alongside one another in Europe, saloon only in USA.

SO, we could see a situation where Honda actually builds a sedan and hatch CTR but sells them in separate markets. Hatch for UK and Sedan for USA. Production costs could be kerpt down by manufacturing the CTR sedan in Ohio, it would save the engines 2 trips across the Ocean...

The question would become are North American consumers more receptive to a hatch or sedan??

 

[RobbJK88]

Given that when Subaru took away the Hatch variant of the WRX people had a fit... more than 45% of the WRX sales were the hatch... people seem to really like their high powered hatches. So i think honda is on the right track with doing a hatch only CTR. (at least for now).

I was thinking on this the other day and it got me wondering, and its a bit off topic, but do we think there would be sales potential for a Fit Si? Something to compete with the Fiesta ST... It could literally use the 1.5T from the civic to power it. I'm also wondering if it's possible the new global platform could be shrunk down enough to fit the FIT.... a more balanced and sophisticated chassis would do the fit wonders, which has been losing the tossable fun the older versions had.

 

[RobbJK88]

You are right... but there are exceptions... somewhat. The Audi RS3 is sold as both Sedan and Hatchback versions. And Audi has also sold the RS4 in sedan, wagon and cabrio (before A5) alongside one another. For this gen they're supposed to be selling RS4 saloon and avant alongside one another in Europe, saloon only in USA.

SO, we could see a situation where Honda actually builds a sedan and hatch CTR but sells them in separate markets. Hatch for UK and Sedan for USA. Production costs could be kerpt down by manufacturing the CTR sedan in Ohio, it would save the engines 2 trips across the Ocean...

The question would become are North American consumers more receptive to a hatch or sedan??

Ah see, i thought of this too... the difference being those are luxury cars... they sell on different margins than mass produced economy car companies, so they can afford to have more niche vehicles in various body styles. So im not sure a luxury maker is the best comparison to use in this instance. Also, german automakers tend to do more variants of EVERYTHING compared to american and japanese automakers do....

 

[Smartie]

Ah see, i thought of this too... the difference being those are luxury cars... they sell on different margins than mass produced economy car companies, so they can afford to have more niche vehicles in various body styles. So im not sure a luxury maker is the best comparison to use in this instance. Also, german automakers tend to do more variants of EVERYTHING compared to american and japanese automakers do....

but the CTR is a HIGH margin product compared to the regular Civic. There was also a brief time where they sold hatch and sedan side by side in Japan, one of the only times...

If you don't like the lux makers then lets look at VW who offers the Golf R in hatch, wagon and cabriolet form...

 

[RobbJK88]

but the CTR is a HIGH margin product compared to the regular Civic. There was also a brief time where they sold hatch and sedan side by side in Japan, one of the only times...

If you don't like the lux makers then lets look at VW who offers the Golf R in hatch, wagon and cabriolet form...

But they don't offer all those variants in the US.... that's my point... American market is totally different from the global market, especially when it comes to high end niche models.

Given that Honda is most popular here and in Japan/Asian my guess is that this global platform is going to go more off of what americans buy first and foremost because thats where the money is at.

 

[5TAR]

I bet looking at how much the DC integra sold for back in the day compared to the type R version of it will help in seeing the difference in price we'll see here and with some math getting a sense of that margin.

 

[Smartie]

But they don't offer all those variants in the US.... that's my point... American market is totally different from the global market, especially when it comes to high end niche models.

Given that Honda is most popular here and in Japan/Asian my guess is that this global platform is going to go more off of what americans buy first and foremost because thats where the money is at.

VW doesn't offer them here because their most popular market is in Europe... Europe to VW is what US is to Honda... thats my point...

 

[RobbJK88]

VW doesn't offer them here because their most popular market is in Europe... Europe to VW is what US is to Honda... thats my point...

But it goes back to VW is german, and they're always known for offering tons of variants... japanese makers dont. So it comes full circle.

 

[Nessuno]

Thing looks like it's ready to take off...