[Smartie]

ok gamblers, Si at a stout 200? cheers for the numbers Rob!!

Cant wait to see torque figs the new Turbos seem like their going to be awesome at the bottom!!

 

[Smartie]

Yea but there's big money in safety. Stoke shoppers into a frenzy that they're likely to die when they drive because they're not good at it, turn around and sell them a couple grand of keep me safe technology...

I'm curious about brake vectoring. Brake based systems are typically inferior...but its honda so I won'tdoubt it just yet...

 

[Smartie]

Is anyone else wondering why the Civic didn't just debut in Frankfurt? I would get it more if they did the solo reveal when there wasn't an auto show going on at the same time. Doing it during Frankfurt somewhere else just makes me think that they might be getting less attention because so many resources are in Frankfurt right now.

LOL you must be kidding right?

Honda DOMINATED the news cycle this morning, the only thing anyone had to write about was the new CIVIC. They were brilliant frankfurt debuts all happened on the 15th, by the time last night rolled around most frankfurt coverage was already exhausted. The regular civic sedan would of got lost among all the porn... besides, most publications have more then one staff writer

 

[Smartie]

They have a history of doing the Si at sema...

 

[Smartie]

When is SEMA? I assume the base coupe will debut before that if the Si variants use the SEMA show.

SEMA November 3-6. LA show doesn't go until November 20.

I'm wondering if they might actually debut the Si and Coupe at the same time... especially if Si will be top trim like touring is to the sedan...

 

[Smartie]

do you think the base 2.0L is the same engine in the type R? (ofcourse its not 100% the same, proabably different head / same block)

No ones really sure if its a K20 or an R20 in there... The CTR uses a Turbo K20... from what I've read the R20 is the cheaper engine to build and its oversquare which is supposed to be better for fuel econ...

 

[Smartie]

Well they'll still offer an Si Sedan... and we don't know if there won't be a touring coupe. But yea, i could see them showing them both at the same time.

yea I know, but I'm thinking touring will still be the top trim in terms of cost for the sedan... I'm assuming the Si won't be bogged with quite so many wizard gizmos...

 

[Smartie]

Maybe i'm wrong (probably wrong) weren't all the R engines SOHC while the K series were the DOHC? Would it be easy for them to just add onto the R series another cam, because both of the new engines are DOHC now.

Do we even know if these are actually even the R or K engines anymore? Since they're the new earth dreams direct injection engines maybe is a whole new series? (again, probably totally wrong on my part)

I've read that Honda developed a DOHC head for the R back when they announced Earth Dreams (but that doesn't mean they bolted it on here)...We know the 2.0 is an ED engine but thats about it...

The other thing is the 2.0L has the same 6700 redline as the ILX when it was using the 2.0L... but from what I can find it seems the ILX was using the SOHC R20A and the new 2.4L is a K series...

 

[Smartie]

if we look closely, the R20A1 that was in the ILX has a different look (engine cap, exposed spark plug caps), and this is what all their SOHC engine look like.

however, this 2.0L has the same engine look as the Type R (K20C1). same engine cover, same oil filler hole location. So the Type R is a DOHC. so based on that i really hope, it is also a DOHC in the regular civics.

edit,

i found the answer, it is a DOHC 2.0L

http://world.honda.com/news/2015/4150917eng.html

Two All-new Engines
The 2016 Civic Sedan will feature two all-new, more powerful and fuel-efficient engines. Civic Sedan LX and EX trims will be powered by a 2.0-liter, 16-valve, DOHC i-VTEC™ 4-cylinder – the most powerful base engine ever offered on Civic – mated to either a 6-speed manual (LX trim) or continuously variable automatic transmission (CVT). Civic Sedans in EX-T, EX-L trims and Touring trims will be powered by a 1.5-liter, direct-injected and turbocharged 16-valve DOHC inline-4, mated to a unique CVT, delivering a new level of responsiveness in this capacity class of turbocharged engine.

Cheers! But we still don't know if its a K20 or R20... like I mentioned above there was a DOHC head developed for the R20 when Earth Dreams first came around...

Now I might be wrong, but from what I can see the K20C1 (Turbo) is the only K20 variant to get the Earth Dreams rework...

 

[Smartie]

Honda focus for the european market is in the hatchback version that maybe was not ready. Anyways Honda is almost non-existant in this continent except in UK.

euro and NA civics were on different life cycles

 

[Smartie]

I think that's the general consensus with most of us so far.... The 1.5T isn't quite powerful enough to really be considered an upgrade to the Si except maybe in the torque department.

My guess would be 2.0T detuned from the CTR.

IIRC when they first showed the 1.5T in proto form it was making some 200 hp...I think they can turn up the wick if they want...

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...e_honda_turbo_engines_future_powertrain_tech/

Like the three-cylinder, this turbocharged four is meant to replace a larger four-cylinder engine, say something in the 2.0-2.5-liter range. With 201 hp and 192 lb-ft of torque onboard, it’s well-positioned to do that. Like the three-cylinder, this engine feels comparable in total performance to the engine it’s trying to replace but offers more punch in the mid-range. It also delivers very smooth, linear power. Go all the way to the floor and it’s even reasonably quick in a midsize sedan like our Accord tester.
On the not-ready-for-production side, we noticed the engine was rather loud under acceleration and could be coarse at low RPM, just off idle. We also noticed that our CVT-equipped tester was cruising at 70 mph at 2200 RPM, which seemed at least 500 RPM high. Honda again assures us these issues will be addressed.

To play devils advocate, I could potentially see Honda NOT using the 2.0T in the Si. IMO using the 2.0T in the CTR and the Si takes away some of the glitz of the flagship, Ford doesn't offer the 5.0 in anything other then the GT for a reason... I can see this being a bit of that... Not to mention I'm also assuming the ILX will get the 2.0T as part of its repertoire, It would allow CTR and ILX to be positioned as the special, more Premium products with the exclusive engines. ILX being the sophisticated CTR...

 

[Smartie]

I don't know if thats strung out... Honda showed the 2.0T proto at the same time, and in production form its making more power and the same torque. I think that 1.5T is probably capable of making near 200 reliably, no worry

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...e_honda_turbo_engines_future_powertrain_tech/

and

http://wot.motortrend.com/1505_honda_debuts_1_5_liter_turbo_four_in_jdm_jade_rs.html

In prototype form, the 1.5-liter turbo-four made around 201 hp and 192 lb-ft of torque. The current Civic Si powered by the 2.4-liter I-4 makes similar horsepower (205 hp), but is down on torque at 174 lb-ft. The 1.5-liter turbo will reportedly power higher trim levels of the next-gen Civic, while a new 2.0-liter naturally aspirated mill will power the base models. The top-spec engine, of course, will be the 2.0-liter turbo-four for the Civic Type-R, which will make at least 275 hp. The new Civic will debut this fall and will be offered in sedan, coupe, and hatchback body styles.

 

[Smartie]

It's true the 1.5T CAN make that kind of power, but with the substantial power increase we've seen from the base engine and 1.5T for the upper trims i'd imagine honda is planning a more substantial power bump for the Si as well, and really much over that 200hp in the 1.5T and you start losing reliability and getting an engine that needs to work harder for the same/less performance than the current 2.4

Honda is planning on using these new engines all over the place, so i wouldn't really consider it a flagship engine only meant for the CTR or ILX... a smaller turbo and detuning it to make less power would still me better performance for the Si, tuning possibilities for those that want it, and a more mpg friendly engine than the current 2.4 as well.

I'd imagine ringing out the 1.5T you would actually start to lose mpg as well.

not flagship to the brand, flagship to the Civic...

The thing we also have to consider is that Honda needs to homologate every drivetrain combination they intend to sell with the gov. a reworked 2.0T featuring different components is going to need a separate certification from the CTR. IF the 1.5T is simply a state of tune, there is far less hoopla to go through with the feds...

 

[Smartie]

You wait until theyre on dealer lots and try for yourself...

 

[Smartie]

Anyone know what will become of the Civic Tourer eventually... I would imagine Europe would still be interested in the wagon... just haven't heard much play on the wagon front...