[RobbJK88]

No ones really sure if its a K20 or an R20 in there... The CTR uses a Turbo K20... from what I've read the R20 is the cheaper engine to build and its oversquare which is supposed to be better for fuel econ...

Maybe i'm wrong (probably wrong) weren't all the R engines SOHC while the K series were the DOHC? Would it be easy for them to just add onto the R series another cam, because both of the new engines are DOHC now.

Do we even know if these are actually even the R or K engines anymore? Since they're the new earth dreams direct injection engines maybe is a whole new series? (again, probably totally wrong on my part)

 

[Smartie]

Maybe i'm wrong (probably wrong) weren't all the R engines SOHC while the K series were the DOHC? Would it be easy for them to just add onto the R series another cam, because both of the new engines are DOHC now.

Do we even know if these are actually even the R or K engines anymore? Since they're the new earth dreams direct injection engines maybe is a whole new series? (again, probably totally wrong on my part)

I've read that Honda developed a DOHC head for the R back when they announced Earth Dreams (but that doesn't mean they bolted it on here)...We know the 2.0 is an ED engine but thats about it...

The other thing is the 2.0L has the same 6700 redline as the ILX when it was using the 2.0L... but from what I can find it seems the ILX was using the SOHC R20A and the new 2.4L is a K series...

 

[kensic]

if we look closely, the R20A1 that was in the ILX has a different look (engine cap, exposed spark plug caps), and this is what all their SOHC engine look like.

however, this 2.0L has the same engine look as the Type R (K20C1). same engine cover, same oil filler hole location. So the Type R is a DOHC. so based on that i really hope, it is also a DOHC in the regular civics.

edit,

i found the answer, it is a DOHC 2.0L

http://world.honda.com/news/2015/4150917eng.html

Two All-new Engines
The 2016 Civic Sedan will feature two all-new, more powerful and fuel-efficient engines. Civic Sedan LX and EX trims will be powered by a 2.0-liter, 16-valve, DOHC i-VTEC™ 4-cylinder – the most powerful base engine ever offered on Civic – mated to either a 6-speed manual (LX trim) or continuously variable automatic transmission (CVT). Civic Sedans in EX-T, EX-L trims and Touring trims will be powered by a 1.5-liter, direct-injected and turbocharged 16-valve DOHC inline-4, mated to a unique CVT, delivering a new level of responsiveness in this capacity class of turbocharged engine.

 

[Smartie]

if we look closely, the R20A1 that was in the ILX has a different look (engine cap, exposed spark plug caps), and this is what all their SOHC engine look like.

however, this 2.0L has the same engine look as the Type R (K20C1). same engine cover, same oil filler hole location. So the Type R is a DOHC. so based on that i really hope, it is also a DOHC in the regular civics.

edit,

i found the answer, it is a DOHC 2.0L

http://world.honda.com/news/2015/4150917eng.html

Two All-new Engines
The 2016 Civic Sedan will feature two all-new, more powerful and fuel-efficient engines. Civic Sedan LX and EX trims will be powered by a 2.0-liter, 16-valve, DOHC i-VTEC™ 4-cylinder – the most powerful base engine ever offered on Civic – mated to either a 6-speed manual (LX trim) or continuously variable automatic transmission (CVT). Civic Sedans in EX-T, EX-L trims and Touring trims will be powered by a 1.5-liter, direct-injected and turbocharged 16-valve DOHC inline-4, mated to a unique CVT, delivering a new level of responsiveness in this capacity class of turbocharged engine.

Cheers! But we still don't know if its a K20 or R20... like I mentioned above there was a DOHC head developed for the R20 when Earth Dreams first came around...

Now I might be wrong, but from what I can see the K20C1 (Turbo) is the only K20 variant to get the Earth Dreams rework...

 

[Hypnotoad]

My main question is whether the Type R will be hatch or sedan based. I'd love to see a hatch Type R roughly the same as the current Euro Type R. I could even live with a 3 door Type R. But if it's going to be a sedan, meh, there's a lot of alternatives for sedans in that price range.

 

[RobbJK88]

My main question is whether the Type R will be hatch or sedan based. I'd love to see a hatch Type R roughly the same as the current Euro Type R. I could even live with a 3 door Type R. But if it's going to be a sedan, meh, there's a lot of alternatives for sedans in that price range.

The type R is being imported from the UK with the hatchback. So it'll be a hatchback. The front end will look like the sedan and coupe. And it'll be a 5 door as honda discontinued a 3 door hatch when the 8th gen ended.

 

[Hypnotoad]

The type R is being imported from the UK with the hatchback. So it'll be a hatchback. The front end will look like the sedan and coupe. And it'll be a 5 door as honda discontinued a 3 door hatch when the 8th gen ended.

I hope you're right. I read some article a few months ago that said it would be unrelated to the Euro Civic Type R and be based on the new global civic platform and possibly a sedan. Who knows at this point. Hope it turns out right, I'm looking forward to getting back into a Civic in a couple years.

 

[RobbJK88]

I hope you're right. I read some article a few months ago that said it would be unrelated to the Euro Civic Type R and be based on the new global civic platform and possibly a sedan. Who knows at this point. Hope it turns out right, I'm looking forward to getting back into a Civic in a couple years.

Its not going to be based on the CURRENT euro civic type R because thats a 9th gen civic for them... ALL CIVICS will be based on the new global platform for the 10th generation. Including the hatch in europe. The one on sale now in europe rides on a fit platform currently.

The 10th gen CTR will ride on the global platform with all the other civics, sedan, coupe and hatch. The hatch is being imported from the Swindon plant in the UK in low volumes (initially at least). The type R has pretty much always been a hatch, therefore it's safe to assume the new type R will also be a hatch. And they'll all share the same front 1/3 between them (coupe, sedan, hatch) which has already been confirmed by honda.

Everyone needs to forget all about the current type R that is on sale. It's never coming here because it's getting replaced. Europe doesn't get the 10th gen hatch for another year or so, they're a design year behind us in that regard.

 

[[email protected]]

Honda focus for the european market is in the hatchback version that maybe was not ready. Anyways Honda is almost non-existant in this continent except in UK.

 

[Smartie]

Honda focus for the european market is in the hatchback version that maybe was not ready. Anyways Honda is almost non-existant in this continent except in UK.

euro and NA civics were on different life cycles

 

[procivic]

I have a feeling the Si models will use a K20C2 engine or something like that....basically a de-tuned Type R (K20C1) engine.

 

[RobbJK88]

I have a feeling the Si models will use a K20C2 engine or something like that....basically a de-tuned Type R (K20C1) engine.

I think that's the general consensus with most of us so far.... The 1.5T isn't quite powerful enough to really be considered an upgrade to the Si except maybe in the torque department.

My guess would be 2.0T detuned from the CTR.

 

[Smartie]

I think that's the general consensus with most of us so far.... The 1.5T isn't quite powerful enough to really be considered an upgrade to the Si except maybe in the torque department.

My guess would be 2.0T detuned from the CTR.

IIRC when they first showed the 1.5T in proto form it was making some 200 hp...I think they can turn up the wick if they want...

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...e_honda_turbo_engines_future_powertrain_tech/

Like the three-cylinder, this turbocharged four is meant to replace a larger four-cylinder engine, say something in the 2.0-2.5-liter range. With 201 hp and 192 lb-ft of torque onboard, it’s well-positioned to do that. Like the three-cylinder, this engine feels comparable in total performance to the engine it’s trying to replace but offers more punch in the mid-range. It also delivers very smooth, linear power. Go all the way to the floor and it’s even reasonably quick in a midsize sedan like our Accord tester.
On the not-ready-for-production side, we noticed the engine was rather loud under acceleration and could be coarse at low RPM, just off idle. We also noticed that our CVT-equipped tester was cruising at 70 mph at 2200 RPM, which seemed at least 500 RPM high. Honda again assures us these issues will be addressed.

To play devils advocate, I could potentially see Honda NOT using the 2.0T in the Si. IMO using the 2.0T in the CTR and the Si takes away some of the glitz of the flagship, Ford doesn't offer the 5.0 in anything other then the GT for a reason... I can see this being a bit of that... Not to mention I'm also assuming the ILX will get the 2.0T as part of its repertoire, It would allow CTR and ILX to be positioned as the special, more Premium products with the exclusive engines. ILX being the sophisticated CTR...

 

[Design]

That would be one strung out 1.5T in Si badging. Possible, yes. But to get that type of power out of a 1.5 would be quite taxing as the mileage builds.

A detuned 2.0T would likely be the "production" version for the Si, ILX and TLX. It would feature different (mainstream) rods, pistons, cams, valvetrain, and manifold that put a little more emphasis on fuel economy without killing performance. All subjective; but knowing Honda's approach, this makes the most sense to me.

 

[Smartie]

I don't know if thats strung out... Honda showed the 2.0T proto at the same time, and in production form its making more power and the same torque. I think that 1.5T is probably capable of making near 200 reliably, no worry

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...e_honda_turbo_engines_future_powertrain_tech/

and

http://wot.motortrend.com/1505_honda_debuts_1_5_liter_turbo_four_in_jdm_jade_rs.html

In prototype form, the 1.5-liter turbo-four made around 201 hp and 192 lb-ft of torque. The current Civic Si powered by the 2.4-liter I-4 makes similar horsepower (205 hp), but is down on torque at 174 lb-ft. The 1.5-liter turbo will reportedly power higher trim levels of the next-gen Civic, while a new 2.0-liter naturally aspirated mill will power the base models. The top-spec engine, of course, will be the 2.0-liter turbo-four for the Civic Type-R, which will make at least 275 hp. The new Civic will debut this fall and will be offered in sedan, coupe, and hatchback body styles.

 

[RobbJK88]

I don't know if thats strung out... Honda showed the 2.0T proto at the same time, and in production form its making more power and the same torque. I think that 1.5T is probably capable of making near 200 reliably, no worry

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...e_honda_turbo_engines_future_powertrain_tech/

and

http://wot.motortrend.com/1505_honda_debuts_1_5_liter_turbo_four_in_jdm_jade_rs.html

It's true the 1.5T CAN make that kind of power, but with the substantial power increase we've seen from the base engine and 1.5T for the upper trims i'd imagine honda is planning a more substantial power bump for the Si as well, and really much over that 200hp in the 1.5T and you start losing reliability and getting an engine that needs to work harder for the same/less performance than the current 2.4

Honda is planning on using these new engines all over the place, so i wouldn't really consider it a flagship engine only meant for the CTR or ILX... a smaller turbo and detuning it to make less power would still me better performance for the Si, tuning possibilities for those that want it, and a more mpg friendly engine than the current 2.4 as well.

I'd imagine ringing out the 1.5T you would actually start to lose mpg as well.

 

[procivic]

That would be one strung out 1.5T in Si badging. Possible, yes. But to get that type of power out of a 1.5 would be quite taxing as the mileage builds.

A detuned 2.0T would likely be the "production" version for the Si, ILX and TLX. It would feature different (mainstream) rods, pistons, cams, valvetrain, and manifold that put a little more emphasis on fuel economy without killing performance. All subjective; but knowing Honda's approach, this makes the most sense to me.

I definitely agree...this is typically what Honda and most other auto makers would do when presented with the engine options.

 

[Smartie]

It's true the 1.5T CAN make that kind of power, but with the substantial power increase we've seen from the base engine and 1.5T for the upper trims i'd imagine honda is planning a more substantial power bump for the Si as well, and really much over that 200hp in the 1.5T and you start losing reliability and getting an engine that needs to work harder for the same/less performance than the current 2.4

Honda is planning on using these new engines all over the place, so i wouldn't really consider it a flagship engine only meant for the CTR or ILX... a smaller turbo and detuning it to make less power would still me better performance for the Si, tuning possibilities for those that want it, and a more mpg friendly engine than the current 2.4 as well.

I'd imagine ringing out the 1.5T you would actually start to lose mpg as well.

not flagship to the brand, flagship to the Civic...

The thing we also have to consider is that Honda needs to homologate every drivetrain combination they intend to sell with the gov. a reworked 2.0T featuring different components is going to need a separate certification from the CTR. IF the 1.5T is simply a state of tune, there is far less hoopla to go through with the feds...

 

[RobbJK88]

not flagship to the brand, flagship to the Civic...

The thing we also have to consider is that Honda needs to homologate every drivetrain combination they intend to sell with the gov. a reworked 2.0T featuring different components is going to need a separate certification from the CTR. IF the 1.5T is simply a state of tune, there is far less hoopla to go through with the feds...

And why wouldn't they be able to just detune the 2.0T???? If you're argument for the 1.5T being uptuned for the Si works so does detuning the 2.0T in the same way. Who's to say they'd have to rework alot of parts? It might be as simple as a CPU adjustment which we've already seen honda do on their 2.4L and the 1.8L

Whats the point in giving the base civics 15-31 more horsepower if the Si isn't going to grow at least that much too? And that 1.5T is only good up to about 200 horses. Assuming honda is keeping the "all new all better" for the entire civic lineup the Si should gain a fair amount of power, and that needs the 2.0T to do that reliably and fuel efficiently.

 

[Design]

In looking at the market, Honda will likely design the next Si powerplant to be well above 200. Probably closer to 220-230 while keeping fuel economy over 30 MPG.

Honda has typically left power on the table on all of their applications except those strictly focused on performance. For that reason, 2.0T is going to be the more likely choice here. Not ruling out the 1.5; just unlikely.