[Design]

Time to collect some opinions on the upcoming Si. Most of you know mine, but curious to know what everyone else is thinking. Feel free to answer the poll and shoot your comments below.

 

[Design]

Here's what else I think will happen:
- 6MT
- Detuned 2.0T with different valvetrain, IM, IC, etc.
- 18" alloys on 235s
- 33+ hwy MPGs
- Recaro style buckets with leather bolsters, or leather option
- HFP suspension option (accessory catalog)

 

[Smartie]

Here's what else I think will happen:
- 6MT
- Detuned 2.0T with different valvetrain, IM, IC, etc.
- 18" alloys on 235s
- 33+ hwy MPGs
- Recaro style buckets with leather bolsters, or leather option
- HFP suspension option (accessory catalog)

curious what you're thinking about the valvetrain...

 

[Razer]

curious what you're thinking about the valvetrain...

I'm assuming he thinks it will be a cheaper version as the R will have some insanely heavy duty and expansive valves and springs and the like for that high output engine. It would also keep people from being able to slap a tune on the Si and "make it an R" as the parts would not support it. You'd need new TB, whole head possibly, and other parts.


I'm hoping the seats are not recaros, or styled too much like them as I hate them. I could survive them but my wife would REALLY hate them so I'm hoping for normal sporty seats without insane bolstering.

I would think that right around 240 would be great, and less that 230 would be disappointing. More than 240 would be gravy lol, but I'm also interested in seeing the torque curve as that means more to me than HP at times. That is what gets that sucker moving but HP gets all the attention lol. My other big concern is pricing, I want them to keep the Si in the affordable fun category and not jump up into GTI and WRX pricing which is not all that far off. Keep it affordable and fun, people can spend more on things they want but keep the basic Si a deal.

 

[RobbJK88]

I'm assuming he thinks it will be a cheaper version as the R will have some insanely heavy duty and expansive valves and springs and the like for that high output engine. It would also keep people from being able to slap a tune on the Si and "make it an R" as the parts would not support it. You'd need new TB, whole head possibly, and other parts.


I'm hoping the seats are not recaros, or styled too much like them as I hate them. I could survive them but my wife would REALLY hate them so I'm hoping for normal sporty seats without insane bolstering.

I would think that right around 240 would be great, and less that 230 would be disappointing. More than 240 would be gravy lol, but I'm also interested in seeing the torque curve as that means more to me than HP at times. That is what gets that sucker moving but HP gets all the attention lol. My other big concern is pricing, I want them to keep the Si in the affordable fun category and not jump up into GTI and WRX pricing which is not all that far off. Keep it affordable and fun, people can spend more on things they want but keep the basic Si a deal.

Given what we've heard about the rest of the civic lineup maintaining it's affordability with only modest price increases across the board i expect the Si will be the same story. It may not sell in huge volume (that might change if they offered an automatic type transmission this time around as an option) but the Si has a still budget minded demographic honda wants to cater to.

 

[5TAR]

The Si one model which they don't have to worry about, just looking at who buys them new will show you how solid of a dedicated following it has and the loyalty behind them.

 

[Smartie]

Speaking of GTI... If and IF they do an Si hatch, I wonder if it will be able to talk the kids out of their VW's

 

[RobbJK88]

Speaking of GTI... If and IF they do an Si hatch, I wonder if it will be able to talk the kids out of their VW's

Well it'd be arguably cheaper, more reliable and have more exciting styling than the GTI... i'd say you probably won't talk any hardcore GTI/Golf fans out of their VDubs (they're as dedicated as honda fans are in my experience) but definitely on the younger/new buyer front that were maybe looking at the GTI before might turn to honda for a better packaged car.

I sadly don't think we'll see a Si hatch (at least not initially, give it a few years based on how sales of the hatch go). I was sitting here wondering about trims on the various models...

Sedan: LX, EX, EX-T, EX-L, EX-L Navi, Touring, Si
Coupe: LX-S, EX-T, EX-L, Navi, Touring, Si
Hatch: EX-T, EX-L, Navi, Touring, Type R

Seems like a good breakdown based on how sales of these various body styles will probably go and the crowd they appeal to, as well as looking at other automakers that offer similar choices. The sedan gets a full trim lineup to appeal to the biggest market of buyers. The coupe gets sportier trim levels while condensing the trims (to limit production cost with less variants). And finally the hatch will would be sport/luxury oriented in one along with the CTR.

 

[Smartie]

Well it'd be arguably cheaper, more reliable and have more exciting styling than the GTI... i'd say you probably won't talk any hardcore GTI/Golf fans out of their VDubs (they're as dedicated as honda fans are in my experience) but definitely on the younger/new buyer front that were maybe looking at the GTI before might turn to honda for a better packaged car.

I sadly don't think we'll see a Si hatch (at least not initially, give it a few years based on how sales of the hatch go). I was sitting here wondering about trims on the various models...

Sedan: LX, EX, EX-T, EX-L, EX-L Navi, Touring, Si
Coupe: LX-S, EX-T, EX-L, Navi, Touring, Si
Hatch: EX-T, EX-L, Navi, Touring, Type R

Seems like a good breakdown based on how sales of these various body styles will probably go and the crowd they appeal to, as well as looking at other automakers that offer similar choices. The sedan gets a full trim lineup to appeal to the biggest market of buyers. The coupe gets sportier trim levels while condensing the trims (to limit production cost with less variants). And finally the hatch will would be sport/luxury oriented in one along with the CTR.

I have a slight variation, maybe its more of a theory. I know Honda hasn't said anything about a Hybrid, but I could potentially see the Hatch serving as the 'special' Civic in NA. Offered up only in Type R and Hybrid guise... Again its just a theory...

 

[RobbJK88]

I have a slight variation, maybe its more of a theory. I know Honda hasn't said anything about a Hybrid, but I could potentially see the Hatch serving as the 'special' Civic in NA. Offered up only in Type R and Hybrid guise... Again its just a theory...

Yea, i know a few others have felt the same way, the hatch only being the "special" civic as you put it, and i don't entirely disagree. It would be at two ends of the spectrum... a prius fighter (if it gets the 2 motor hybrid system) as well as a sports car in type R guise.

Just not sure it's worth the cost of shipping them over here to only offer those 2 versions... and the hybrid is still on the drawing board at honda in terms of what engine it'll have. Hence why i gave it a very watered down trim scheme. Assuming sedan sells top, coupe gets second place in sales and the hatch being the newcomer and the "not so american" body style of choice is how i theorized the trim levels for them.

We'll just have to wait and see what honda does... the coupe might end up mirroring the sedan's trim levels like it does now (though i hope not actually). And the hatch might only get a CTR guise... time will tell.

 

[Civil]

I think that in order to answer this question properly you need to figure out what the power of the competitors is. That should give us a better idea of how Honda would be likely to position the Civic within the segment.

 

[Smartie]

Yea, i know a few others have felt the same way, the hatch only being the "special" civic as you put it, and i don't entirely disagree. It would be at two ends of the spectrum... a prius fighter (if it gets the 2 motor hybrid system) as well as a sports car in type R guise.

Just not sure it's worth the cost of shipping them over here to only offer those 2 versions... and the hybrid is still on the drawing board at honda in terms of what engine it'll have. Hence why i gave it a very watered down trim scheme. Assuming sedan sells top, coupe gets second place in sales and the hatch being the newcomer and the "not so american" body style of choice is how i theorized the trim levels for them.

We'll just have to wait and see what honda does... the coupe might end up mirroring the sedan's trim levels like it does now (though i hope not actually). And the hatch might only get a CTR guise... time will tell.

If this proves to be true my thinking is Honda would bake the added cost into the expected premium for the speciality Hybrid or Type R

 

[g26okie]

I'm going to say that since Honda has never really struck me as the hp bragging rights company (even though 240hp is still below the focus st), that they will go with around 220hp.

 

[Design]

I think that in order to answer this question properly you need to figure out what the power of the competitors is. That should give us a better idea of how Honda would be likely to position the Civic within the segment.

Based on the current features we know, my gut says Honda is targeting a bracket between the GTI and FST. Little more punch than the GTI, little more refinement over the FST.

A 220-230 HP 2.0T is my best guess at this point. I'd be highly surprised at anything less.

 

[liquid squid]

@HondaGeek was saying they're hearing/expecting a 1.5T with just north of 200.

Hey Guys and Gals,

Nothing official yet on the Si but word is that it might be a reworked 1.5T making a little over 200HP. We still expect it to come with a 6 Speed manual only, which is why the EX-T, EX-L and Touring are not available with the manual.

 

[raptor2k2]

Good answer is not available....220/230hp!!

 

[g26okie]

@HondaGeek was saying they're hearing/expecting a 1.5T with just north of 200.

Does he have a source?

Its possible, as the 1.5t in prototype trim was making ~200hp. The fiesta st and veloster turbo also make ~200hp from a 1.6t in production form, however the civic's class is not the fiesta or veloster.

I would be really really surprised with the base civics getting a large power bump, that they would keep the Si near 200-210.

Nvm, just saw he works at a Honda dealer. hmmmmmmm

 

[RobbJK88]

Does he have a source?

Its possible, as the 1.5t in prototype trim was making ~200hp. The fiesta st and veloster turbo also make ~200hp from a 1.6t in production form, however the civic's class is not the fiesta or veloster.

I would be really really surprised with the base civics getting a large power bump, that they would keep the Si near 200-210.

Nvm, just saw he works at a Honda dealer. hmmmmmmm

I agree with you it'd be odd for the Si power figures to stay so close to the current car when the rest of the lineup got a 15-31hp bump... I'd expect the Si to jump to at least 220... that puts it up there with the GTI with the performance package... And the turbo would help it make loads more torque...

 

[Design]

Keep in mind that both the current GTI and Focus ST will be outgoing models; it's likely both will receive modest power increases. Some have rumored the MKVIII to get as much as 300 for MY 2018 (250 is more likely).

The advantage of doing turbo is now Honda can get both the output and efficiency they want; the latter being more relevant to their company's mission statement.

 

[HondaGeek]

As much as I would want the Si to have around 250HP, which it should to compete with the Focus ST and the like, the feeling is still the 1.5T with similar HP output, with Honda advertising heavy the increase in torque.

We have not heard anything official yet, so things can change. For Honda, this new gen Civic is more important than they are letting the public know, especially the platform. As you know, the new Accord will use this platform, in addition to the future ILX and TLX.

What else does this mean? When you see the new Civic in person, specfically the back seat area, you will notice that it has a slight hump on the floor. That's to make room for the AWD components for the 2017 CRV (yes, a new redesign is already in the works) and the future TLX.

I would be surprised, not shocked, if they did throw the 2.0T in the Si, just like the 1.5T was thrown in the Civic sedan at the last minute.

While SUV sales have gone up dramatically in the US, globally, the Civic and its platform are very important for Honda.