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Discussion Starter #1
I've cruised the site plenty, thought I'd join so I could let anyone who cared know that I stopped by a local Honda dealer today to inquire about order cut off dates for a 2015 Honda SI Sedan. He told me that I had untill the end of the week (end of May sales I presumed) to place a $1,000 down payment, and that would be it for 2015 models. I thanked him and then looked at a a blue Civic Sedan (not an SI, never seen any at a dealer) before leaving. That blue being another reason why I went in person, as I wanted to see it with my own eyes and not on a tablet or phone. I promptly called another Honda dealer in another city and asked the same question and was told that he thought I was already too late to do anymore custom orders for 2015 models, and it was too late at night to check the system (Honda system down after 4:00). I then asked him when he thought Honda would be rolling out the 2016 model Civics. He said probably September or October, with the other models (like the SI or possibly Type R) being a few months later but more like spring. Not sure how correct his info was, but between the two dealers, it made it alot easier for me to decide to wait for the 2016 models. I would love a 4dr hot hatch or turbo Sedan SI. I guess I've got some foot tapping ahead of me, as I'll be waiting.
 

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You literally couldn't have posted that at a better time :p I'm getting my first post-college car soon (gotta get a honda) and I was just on the verge of checking out local honda dealships for the same information, and honestly, after hearing what you said, I may just wait on getting my Si until the 10th gen drops. The only thing that irks my mind (besides the wait!) is the thought that since this is an entirely new car, there might be new problems that wont be worked out until the 2017 model. I'd be fine driving around in my grandma-style camry until spring, but what if I wait that long only to find out the 10th gen's are problem ridden and the 2015 Si's are all gone?

Anyway, that's my dilema: 9th gen but tested and proven, or the super sweet 10th gen with turbo and potential problems. Anyone else have any ideas on the possibility of unforeseen problems with a turbo 10th gen? Engine-wise, that is. I'd drive around in a cardboard box if it had enough reliability and hp ;)

P.S. Anyone with previous civic gen experience, do dealers usually put ridiculous mark-ups on new Si's? Because if the '16 Si's are marked at 26k, it might be worth it to just grab a departing '15 for 22k.
 

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They aren't completely incorrect. Most sources agree that the official reveal of the production Civics (coupe/sedan/Si) will probably be by the end of this summer. Roll out of the models will begin late September early October for the Sedan only. The coupe will come into lots a month or two after that (November/December). The Si could probably be expected around that same time or early early 2016 (January/February). BUT. The type R isn't due until Fall of 2016 or even 2017 because the Type R is expected to be a 2018 model (due to the fact the 9th gen Euro civics haven't run their life cycle yet). So don't hold out for the Type R quite yet if you really need a new car, but you can expect the Si models by the end of this year or early early next year.

My dealer always told me the reason the Sedans released before the Coupes was partially because the sedan is the volume seller (obviously) but also because the Sedans are built in Ohio while the coupes are built in Canada and need extra time to build stock and ship across the U.S.

I gladly live less than a mile away from the Midwests largest Honda Dealership (Lindsay Honda of Reynoldsburg, OH) and they always get stock in larger amounts before any other honda dealers in the area. I plan on talking to my sales rep whenever i get in for an oil change in the next month or so.
 

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You literally couldn't have posted that at a better time :p I'm getting my first post-college car soon (gotta get a honda) and I was just on the verge of checking out local honda dealships for the same information, and honestly, after hearing what you said, I may just wait on getting my Si until the 10th gen drops. The only thing that irks my mind (besides the wait!) is the thought that since this is an entirely new car, there might be new problems that wont be worked out until the 2017 model. I'd be fine driving around in my grandma-style camry until spring, but what if I wait that long only to find out the 10th gen's are problem ridden and the 2015 Si's are all gone?

Anyway, that's my dilema: 9th gen but tested and proven, or the super sweet 10th gen with turbo and potential problems. Anyone else have any ideas on the possibility of unforeseen problems with a turbo 10th gen? Engine-wise, that is. I'd drive around in a cardboard box if it had enough reliability and hp ;)
Honda has been testing/building/researching their 3 new turbo engines for years now. And like 3 of their cars in Japan already have the engines, which gives them a good cushion to work out kinks with the systems BEFORE they hit the streets here. So good chance we won't see any huge hiccups with the new cars.

Also, these new engines have been built specifically to handle turbos. Many other automakers (hyundai/kia cough cough) simply strap turbos to their N/A engines without making any huge changes to them, which can cause alot of the reliability issues (not sure about ford/chevy). Honda is way too concerned with their image of reliability to release a half-assed new engine that will have alot of problems.

Obviously we won't know until the cars are actually out and about, but i'd say its a pretty safe bet that first model years won't be too much of a risk. (My current lease is up when MY2 comes out, so i'm definitely not concerned)
 

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Honda has been testing/building/researching their 3 new turbo engines for years now. And like 3 of their cars in Japan already have the engines, which gives them a good cushion to work out kinks with the systems BEFORE they hit the streets here. So good chance we won't see any huge hiccups with the new cars.

Also, these new engines have been built specifically to handle turbos. Many other automakers (hyundai/kia cough cough) simply strap turbos to their N/A engines without making any huge changes to them, which can cause alot of the reliability issues (not sure about ford/chevy). Honda is way too concerned with their image of reliability to release a half-assed new engine that will have alot of problems.

Obviously we won't know until the cars are actually out and about, but i'd say its a pretty safe bet that first model years won't be too much of a risk. (My current lease is up when MY2 comes out, so i'm definitely not concerned)
That's reassuring to hear. And I've definitely got my eyes set on a Si sedan because although a Type-R would be radical, I ain't made of money ;) That's also why I'm curious as to how much the Si's might be marked-up with dealership costs
 

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That's reassuring to hear. And I've definitely got my eyes set on a Si sedan because although a Type-R would be radical, I ain't made of money ;) That's also why I'm curious as to how much the Si's might be marked-up with dealership costs
Knowing Honda the price increase over the current Civics should be pretty modest overall. Maybe a few hundred dollars (they don't want to lose their audience) also, with the new platform they're poised to save alot of money in production costs of the civics, so there is room for alot of improvement in quality and performance, while not having to jack the price up.

Obviously a new car, especially one as popular as the civic is going to be hard to haggle down when it first comes out. I'd suggest waiting until one of their holiday sales events or if possible their clearance sale they'll have on the 2016 model before the 2017s roll out. (Only down side is smaller stock to choose from)
 

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Knowing Honda the price increase over the current Civics should be pretty modest overall. Maybe a few hundred dollars (they don't want to lose their audience)
With that in mind, do you think it's going to be possible to get one for under 25k such as around the low 24s, straight out of release? I'm so demanding, I know! I just really want an Si! lol
 

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With that in mind, do you think it's going to be possible to get one for under 25k such as around the low 24s, straight out of release? I'm so demanding, I know! I just really want an Si! lol
Well the current one starts a little over $23k, with dealer markup right out of release? maybe... if you find someone you can haggle a bit with. I'd love an Si coupe, but i cant drive stick, and it would blow living in the city. Now if they gave us the optional DSG from the ILX in the Si i'd be all over it since i'm considering an EX coupe with all the underbody spoilers and such it comes out to around the same price.
 

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Knowing Honda the price increase over the current Civics should be pretty modest overall. Maybe a few hundred dollars (they don't want to lose their audience) also, with the new platform they're poised to save alot of money in production costs of the civics, so there is room for alot of improvement in quality and performance, while not having to jack the price up.

Obviously a new car, especially one as popular as the civic is going to be hard to haggle down when it first comes out. I'd suggest waiting until one of their holiday sales events or if possible their clearance sale they'll have on the 2016 model before the 2017s roll out. (Only down side is smaller stock to choose from)

This one is interesting as I've heard offhand a few times now that Honda 'MAY' be considering bringing over the FIT sedan, CITY. Which would allow the civic not only a bit of room to grow, but also a price increase, allowing the FIT sedan to fill the ideological role of the Civic...

Maybe...
 

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This one is interesting as I've heard offhand a few times now that Honda 'MAY' be considering bringing over the FIT sedan, CITY. Which would allow the civic not only a bit of room to grow, but also a price increase, allowing the FIT sedan to fill the ideological role of the Civic...

Maybe...
Well unless the Accord follows suit with a price increase they can't get too much closer. A top of the line civic already hits the Accords base price. So i don't see them moving it up too much. Besides, compared to the civics sales the fit is a drop in the bucket. Popular, but not like the accord and civic are. They aren't going to outprice their bread and butter cars.
 

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This one is interesting as I've heard offhand a few times now that Honda 'MAY' be considering bringing over the FIT sedan, CITY. Which would allow the civic not only a bit of room to grow, but also a price increase, allowing the FIT sedan to fill the ideological role of the Civic...

Maybe...
Yup.

That's what came to mind ever since seeing how much bigger the next generation civic has gotten and with knowledge already about the current sub-compact segments... it just makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You literally couldn't have posted that at a better time :p I'm getting my first post-college car soon (gotta get a honda) and I was just on the verge of checking out local honda dealships for the same information, and honestly, after hearing what you said, I may just wait on getting my Si until the 10th gen drops. The only thing that irks my mind (besides the wait!) is the thought that since this is an entirely new car, there might be new problems that wont be worked out until the 2017 model. I'd be fine driving around in my grandma-style camry until spring, but what if I wait that long only to find out the 10th gen's are problem ridden and the 2015 Si's are all gone?

Anyway, that's my dilema: 9th gen but tested and proven, or the super sweet 10th gen with turbo and potential problems. Anyone else have any ideas on the possibility of unforeseen problems with a turbo 10th gen? Engine-wise, that is. I'd drive around in a cardboard box if it had enough reliability and hp


P.S. Anyone with previous civic gen experience, do dealers usually put ridiculous mark-ups on new Si's? Because if the '16 Si's are marked at 26k, it might be worth it to just grab a departing '15 for 22k.

My thoughts exactly. I was being aprehensive about purchasing the first year of the new model and new engine, but I think Honda is taking their time and doing it right. My only wish would be for them to release a factory backed electronic tuner or chip like Ford is doing with the Fiesta ST and Focus ST. Flipping a dial or pushing a button to gain 80ft lbs of torque would be realy nice. I just hope the new SI versions arent too pussified since the Type R is coming.
 

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Well unless the Accord follows suit with a price increase they can't get too much closer. A top of the line civic already hits the Accords base price. So i don't see them moving it up too much. Besides, compared to the civics sales the fit is a drop in the bucket. Popular, but not like the accord and civic are. They aren't going to outprice their bread and butter cars.
But how much are FIT sales held back in the US by having a hatch only? Americans are known to not like hatchbacks particularly (unless you jack them and call them SUVs).

The problem is that Civic and Accord are on different life cycles. So either Civic bumps a bit into it now or Accord moves later when it gets refreshed. There is no perfect timing IMO. And that reasoning is an interesting one because Honda has shown they're not averse to creating model overlap, see HRV and CRV...
 

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But how much are FIT sales held back in the US by having a hatch only? Americans are known to not like hatchbacks particularly (unless you jack them and call them SUVs).

The problem is that Civic and Accord are on different life cycles. So either Civic bumps a bit into it now or Accord moves later when it gets refreshed. There is no perfect timing IMO. And that reasoning is an interesting one because Honda has shown they're not averse to creating model overlap, see HRV and CRV...
I just don't think the Fit sedan and hatch is ever going to sell as well as the civic lineup. More power, better looks, more features... I don't see honda outpricing its bread and butter civic and accord to price points above its current customer base when there is no guarantee the fit subcompacts would sell as well as the civics do now, especially with small car sales dipping due to low gas prices. Maybe someday in the future, but lets not forget the 8th gen accord was bashed for being too large and they scaled it back for the 9th generation. And if everything moves up a notch, accord goes full size, civic mid size, fit compact then there is another gap in the lineup for yet another subcompact below the fit. And the CRV/HRV don't really overlap that much when you see the size difference as well as the pricing difference between the two.

I also don't think the civic growth for this generation is going to be as dramatic as people think. People hear its on the accord platform and think accord sizes, but its a scalable platform for a reason, it grows and shrinks as needed. The new civic will be lower and wider, but i don't see length growing by more than an inch or so, and there is an 9-11 inch length difference between the civic and accord currently. Thats alot of space to fill.

Even the new CRZ will be on this platform and it'll shrink roughly 6 inches from the civic. This new platform wasn't put in place so that they could move every car up market a notch, it was created to save costs (so they could give us more quality/features) while keeping pricing the same, while also allowing for better performance across the board.
 

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@Sampsonite, welcome to the forum!

To all you lurkers out there: take 3 minutes to sign up and post something interesting for all of us to chat about! I need more ideas of things to talk about before the new Civic is out >:)
 

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A few questions:

Assuming the Si does have a 1.5L Turbo, would this give it an advantage over the 2015 if the 15 was turbo'd as well? I've heard that turbos can really wear out your engine, so would the fact that the 16 was designed for a turbo make it more likely to handle the boost without long term consequences, even if I put in a bigger turbo? Obviously I'm new to cars, so my mind says, why not just get a 2.4L '15 and turbo that? I'd be buying a bigger turbo anyway, so why not start on a bigger engine?

Secondly, do factory turbo'd cars have issues with maintaining the turbo? Is it an additional maintenance cost that gets tacked on?
 

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A few questions:

Assuming the Si does have a 1.5L Turbo, would this give it an advantage over the 2015 if the 15 was turbo'd as well? I've heard that turbos can really wear out your engine, so would the fact that the 16 was designed for a turbo make it more likely to handle the boost without long term consequences, even if I put in a bigger turbo? Obviously I'm new to cars, so my mind says, why not just get a 2.4L '15 and turbo that? I'd be buying a bigger turbo anyway, so why not start on a bigger engine?

Secondly, do factory turbo'd cars have issues with maintaining the turbo? Is it an additional maintenance cost that gets tacked on?
Theoretically, yes, the 1.5T has a slight advantage because it has been designed from the ground up to use a turbo, so certain parts have been reinforced to hand the extra pressure and heat generated by the turbo. Slapping a turbo onto ANY engine that wasn't designed to handle it is taking a risk, though people do it all the time without too much issue, depends on the size of the turbo. In the case of doing that to the 2.4 the smaller the turbo the better.

The reason Honda went with a 1.5T over putting a turbo on the 2.4 is gas mileage. The 1.5T has been stated as being able to achieve the same numbers as the 2.4 but with better fuel economy, also, weight savings over the larger engine.

I'm not entirely sure the 1.5T will be in the Si however. I believe that's being used for the EX and EX-L trims. I have an odd feeling Honda may stick with the 2.4 for the Si for now, or at most, detune the 2.0T from the type R for the Si to use.
 

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Welcome to the forum @Sampsonite

Just to chime in a little from what I've read. It seems to me that a Civic hatch may be more successful than the Fit hatch just because the Civic name has more going for it.
 

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Welcome to the forum @Sampsonite

Just to chime in a little from what I've read. It seems to me that a Civic hatch may be more successful than the Fit hatch just because the Civic name has more going for it.
You can't possibly base the success of a vehicle on its name. That only factors in an insignificant amount. What makes it successful is what is it.
 

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You can't possibly base the success of a vehicle on its name. That only factors in an insignificant amount. What makes it successful is what is it.
EH... I don't totally agree with that. Humans are creatures of habit. They stick with what they know. Honda in general has a great history and reputation so all of it's cars usually do pretty well. BUT. Second part of that is model name recognition. That's why you see so many automakers reviving old names from the 60s and 70s and even 80s. The cars may effectively be the same, but the name brings people in (for those old enough to remember the originals). The fit, while a good seller, isn't nearly as known as Accord or Civic is.
 
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