Volkswagen Das Auto (with Das Cheating Software)

18743 Views 84 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Tim, Oct 22, 2015

Tim

Discussion Starter · Sep 22, 2015

Been following the news about Volkswagen like a disastertourist lately.
I'm really amused as I must say.
(in short: Volkswagen in crisis after scandal leaking
where they deliberately used cheating software to lower emissions during tests
while their dieselcars emission levels on the road are so much higher in realtime
America discovered and unveiled this fraude, GOD BLESS AMERICA)

anyway they say in the news that all car manufactures cheat
trying to lower their dieselemissionlevels on their cars.
Could Honda have done this as well?
considering their dieselmarket is extremely limited to
the 1.6 here in Europe and the 1.5 in India (if I'm not mistaken)

Any thoughts? I'm just bitten by the idea of just the possibility.
Volkswagen is looking at the biggest fine ever: 18billion dollars
and their marketvalue has dropped a whoooole lot.
They just put aside over 6 billion euro's to cover the first part of this financial misery :surprise:

21 - 40 of 85 Posts

Smartie

· #21 · Sep 24, 2015

Tim said:
@Smartie: your last link you posted: does that mean they're going to start testing all (european) manufacturers
or is it just a random sample?

I'm not totally sure... AUTO BILD has been accused in the past of being VW's Magazine, they also seem to be the only ones saying anything about BMW...

I'm also wondering if their move to get rid of Audi and Porsche R&D chiefs is a subtle admission that the cheat isn't just in Type EA 189. I mean why else would you axe these people if they weren't responsible... Thats some top level talent to be discarded as mere scapegoats... http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/24/horn-hackenburg-hatz-fired-vw-diesel-scandal/

Tim

Discussion Starter · #22 · Sep 24, 2015

those three not knowing about this beforehand would idd seem unlikely
but in the news I heared Winterkorn didn't know about all this
Hmmm... so why fire him?

Smartie

· #23 · Sep 24, 2015

Tim said:
those three not knowing about this beforehand would idd seem unlikely
but in the news I heared Winterkorn didn't know about all this
Hmmm... so why fire him?

I think that's the position he has to take. Could you imagine the maelstrom if Winterkorn had admitted that he was indeed compliant... thats malice from the very top, an organization dedicated to cheating. At least this way its able to be spun as somewhat rogue individuals acting instead of a corporate culture issue IMO... (which I disagree with, I think it is indeed a culture thing, just trying to think through their thinking)

Tim

Discussion Starter · #24 · Sep 24, 2015

I like the way you think ;-)

something this big could not have been known from the top imo

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5TAR

· #25 · Sep 25, 2015

Came across this last night, had to share:

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Smartie

· #26 · Sep 25, 2015

Tim said:
I like the way you think ;-)

something this big could not have been known from the top imo

Oh lookie here. Doctor professor Winterkorn still has 2 high level positions within the VW mess of corporate entities... http://dailykanban.com/2015/09/winterkorn-stepped-down-not-exactly/

The good doctor headed up Technical Development for the entire VW group since 2000... Maybe his promotion to CEO was reward...

You know what... I'd almost prefer if he stayed... dont fine VW, don't fire anyone, let them continue on as usual...but they don't get to wash their image. Yes you are a company that cheats and you will continue to be viewed in this light... Firings are the easy way out for the culprits, keep them in position and make them fuckking squirm

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Tim

Discussion Starter · #27 · Sep 25, 2015

5TAR said:
Came across this last night, had to share:

it would have been a crime if you didn't

Tim

Discussion Starter · #28 · Sep 25, 2015

Smartie said:
Oh lookie here. Doctor professor Winterkorn still has 2 high level positions within the VW mess of corporate entities... http://dailykanban.com/2015/09/winterkorn-stepped-down-not-exactly/

The good doctor headed up Technical Development for the entire VW group since 2000... Maybe his promotion to CEO was reward...

You know what... I'd almost prefer if he stayed... dont fine VW, don't fire anyone, let them continue on as usual...but they don't get to wash their image. Yes you are a company that cheats and you will continue to be viewed in this light... Firings are the easy way out for the culprits, keep them in position and make them fuckking squirm

priceless, I already had a feeling it would turn out like this
completely agree wih your last paragraph
firing is the easy way out and another way to make people forget this scandal even faster

Tim

Discussion Starter · #29 · Sep 25, 2015

another few classics (sorry don't know how to put the image here)

https://www.google.be/search?q=coal+train+volkswagen&biw=1518&bih=633&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIv6O3w-eSyAIVg38aCh3mgA7t&dpr=0.9#tbm=isch&q=vw+scandal+jokes&imgrc=xGzs3XLS41C4MM%3A

https://www.google.be/search?q=coal...=isch&q=vw+scandal+joke&imgrc=4SztEW7Am9D4LM:

https://www.google.be/search?q=coal...=isch&q=vw+scandal+joke&imgrc=PNfZGbFXpg3zlM:

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Civil

· #30 · Sep 28, 2015

Apparently all heads of R+D at VW brands are suspended, but who knows what suspended will turn into. I think at this point whoever is in charge of this is trying to figure out who knew and who didn't. Germany is investigating so that could produce something, but corporate crime usually goes unpunished. Pay a fine and move on. Spend a lot on PR.

Tim

Discussion Starter · #31 · Sep 28, 2015

Civil said:
Apparently all heads of R+D at VW brands are suspended, but who knows what suspended will turn into. I think at this point whoever is in charge of this is trying to figure out who knew and who didn't. Germany is investigating so that could produce something, but corporate crime usually goes unpunished. Pay a fine and move on. Spend a lot on PR.

yup, i really hope it doesn't turn into something like that
but best to keep my hopes low

the german government gave vw till the 7th of october to come with a solution
whatever that may be...

Reactions: 1

Smartie

· #32 · Sep 29, 2015

Tim said:
yup, i really hope it doesn't turn into something like that
but best to keep my hopes low

the german government gave vw till the 7th of october to come with a solution
whatever that may be...

the solution is to announce an eventual recall, eventually... then decide just what the recall will be... then figure out how to do it...

its not a software patch, VW tried it in the US back in April... its a physical fix and thats a problem... VW doesn't sell/manufacture 11 million cars in a year...

I defer to Bertel once again... http://dailykanban.com/2015/09/dies...ventually-makes-you-think-its-only-5-million/

Reactions: 1

4Tires

· #33 · Sep 30, 2015

Customers will receive nothing else than a letter, in which they are told “that the emissions characteristics of their vehicles will be corrected in the near future,” and that the cars are safe to drive.

Feels like VW may just pay the fine and call it a day... Probably cheaper than fixing 11 million cars. Or they'll drag it out for a long time. Found another source that said the recall could be costing them a lot of money, in the billions maybe.

Civil

· #34 · Sep 30, 2015

And once they "fix" it, the car will be way worse. Worse performance and fuel economy, but it will pollute less. The fix will not make people any happier.

Smartie

· #35 · Sep 30, 2015

absolutely nobody is going to jail...

The law basically requires that emission readings are not exceeded during testing. In normal, highly individual driving, the law does not require that readings stay under the limit. If a manufacturer optimizes the motor management for the emissions test, that can hardly be called fraud. Unethical, maybe. Fraud, no way.”

also remember winterkorn said he's not aware of any wrongdoing...try and prove the intent of a man who was unaware of any wrong doing, if he thought he was good doing how could he of intended wrong doing...

but this is the beauty, goddam good ol U S of A... http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-may-not-face-environmental-criminal-charges-1443567204

Car companies, with the aid of industry-friendly lawmakers, won a carve-out from criminal penalties in the 1970 Clean Air Act—a loophole that has largely escaped notice in recent years. Prosecutors now are considering alternative legal approaches, such as charging Volkswagen with lying to regulators.

...

While refineries and other types of major polluters are criminally liable under the Clean Air Act for emissions beyond legal limits, the section of the law that deals with automobiles specifically leaves out any similar provision.

Tim

Discussion Starter · #36 · Sep 30, 2015

Smartie said:
the solution is to announce an eventual recall, eventually... then decide just what the recall will be... then figure out how to do it...

its not a software patch, VW tried it in the US back in April... its a physical fix and thats a problem... VW doesn't sell/manufacture 11 million cars in a year...

I defer to Bertel once again... http://dailykanban.com/2015/09/dies...ventually-makes-you-think-its-only-5-million/

another lovely read
thnx! dormant in many more vehicles then 11 million, oh boy oh boy oh boy

Tim

Discussion Starter · #37 · Sep 30, 2015

I don't understand why a megafatory like VW puts so much money and their credibility on the line for something that can be so easily discovered
true, it still took a long time to unravel this scam
it's just surprising to me something of these proportions could be hidden for so many years.

for not going to prison, I would find that very unfair
certainly after reading this rather long but very interesting article
http://fusion.net/story/202422/the-...candal-is-a-new-low-in-corporate-malfeasance/
VWdieselgate has cost human lives imo

Smartie

· #38 · Sep 30, 2015

Tim said:
another lovely read
thnx! dormant in many more vehicles then 11 million, oh boy oh boy oh boy

the fact that they're talking about 'refitting' cars and not 'reflashing' cars is huge IMO... I believe it relates to how the emissions scrubbing hardware interacts with the software. The hardware would of been designed to run a different mapping, They're certainly not optimized to work with totally compliant software... so this will be interesting...

But still no one will go to jail... we'll forget about it... we already forgot that GM killed 100 something people, we already forgot about Takata, we certainly forgot about Ford and Firestone...

Tim

Discussion Starter · #39 · Sep 30, 2015

probably you're right, it's not fair, but it will probably go like that

difference of that word is huge idd!
so actually you're saying these cars were build to drive this malicious software

10thGenCivic

· #40 · Oct 13, 2015

Tim said:
VW threatening human lives is idd a bit far fetched
but advertising that you have a green car
and people actually buying it for this reason
is committing serious fraude by using this software
I stil find it hard to believe if you're the world leading carmanufacturer
you let yourself get caught on this level of scam

Free market capitalism in the U.S. has its flaws but then most systems do. However one good thing is that from inspectors to investors to the public who use the goods and services we can see moves of greed like this and take action. What this company did by raising the price of Daraprim by 5000% is just rediculous. $13.50 to $750. Does the pill suddenly contain gold? I am confident that someone did not accidentally market this so cheap since it has been out since at least 1953. These are people's life's. This helps treat a parasite that can takes someone's eyesight. What ever happened to being in this together? We only get one go at this life! In regards to this pill that has long been paid for I have say we need regulation that allows for an small incentive (profit) but does make it affordable for the patient like it was.

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