[10thGenCivic]

I am confident we all will agree what Volkswagen did was terrible but we should keep in mind that chances are it was a small team of engineers that pulled off this feat. The atmosphere in VW may not have promoted a environment where a whistle-blower could come forward without fear of retaliation. I cannot hold most of the companies employees responsible for what was probably known by a limited number of people. I must say that how these engineers got away with this for so long world wide is beyond me.

What might be really odd is that the people with the greatest engineering expertise to fix this TDI engine family may be the employees who get kicked to the door. A fix might take longer than expected.

 

[5TAR]

The employee's you can hold accountable were those calling the shots and overlooking jobs, the rest are just paid to follow orders.

 

[CanGuy]

I don't believe that it was a few rogue engineers. That seems convenient. If it was something top people knew about, blaming a few engineers would be a great scapegoat.

Either they knew and were acting in bad faith, or they didn't and were pretty stupid to not have known what was going on with their company and vehicles.

 

[Smartie]

WINTERKORN, WINTERKORN, WINTERKORN!!!!

Hackenburg who they said mastermined it claims he was circumvented and it never passed his desk for approval, the only guy above him is Winterkorn...

http://dailykanban.com/2015/10/hack...ce-vws-chief-controller-dieselgate-embroiled/

In the letter to Winterkorn, Hackenberg wrote that he did not know of any defeat devices, because the “reporting channels” went around him in that regard. Insiders at Volkswagen see that as subtle finger pointing at Winterkorn. “If he was bypassed as the report was sent up the ladder, who he’s saying got the report?” a Volkswagen manager asks me. “At Volkswagen, above Hackenberg was only Winterkorn, and then God.”

 

[Tim]

there you said it: "we only get one go at this life". And some people will do everything to make the most out of it, even if other ones have to suffer for it

 

[4Tires]

On the bright side, Volkswagen was said to step up development of hybrid and electric vehicles. Also they plan to revamp their diesel program with new technology to reduce emissions.

 

[RobbJK88]

According to what i read this morning. VW is going to really hit on the Electric/Hybrid cars. But also continue their Diesel and NG research and models.

The fix they're claiming for the scandal is a piece of tech that injects a fluid in the exhaust which vaporized and neutralized the toxic emissions to a safe/legal level. Which the article also stated would actually be more expensive than doing software updates or even engine modifications. But i think VW is trying to preserve the driving dynamics the customers are used to as software changes would probably lower the torque and hp numbers too low.

they also say that the Phaeton sedan which was already in preproduction guise has been scrapped in favor of a new design with an all electric powertrain.

They're also cutting their investments budget by $1.1 Billion for the next few years in order to recoup the costs associated with this whole problem.

On a side note... one website that deals in depreciation, has seen the % of depreciation on diesel VW models double or more since the scandal was brought to light, which sucks for the owners of these cars that were expecting to sell them down the road... Jetta TDI models have depreciated almost 7.9% since the scandal started compared to a 3.4% industry standard.

 

[Smartie]

I don't believe that it was a few rogue engineers. That seems convenient. If it was something top people knew about, blaming a few engineers would be a great scapegoat.

Either they knew and were acting in bad faith, or they didn't and were pretty stupid to not have known what was going on with their company and vehicles.

but lets be serious...you don't cockup emissions with complex software AND hardware by accident...

and no lone or 2 or 3 engineers in a company as big as VW would be able to push through something this nefarious by themselves.

Although I have read about the culture of fear at VW, where you're expected to already know what the manager wants and not have to be told.

If and when the emissions 'fix' was actually developed by a couple of middle engineers, it would of had to go straight up the chain before it could of been approved for mass production...

 

[Smartie]

Here look, now they're saying something like at least 30 managers were involved, and thats not counting the people who would of engineered the tech for their bosses...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...l-involved-least-30-managers-not-small-group/

and people are jumping ship... http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/10/new-volkswagen-na-boss-quits-before-taking-position/

Vahland will not be taking the N.A. role which would have given him the responsibility of overseeing the U.S., Canadian and Mexican markets.

“Differing views on the organisation of the new Group region have led to this decision,” Škoda said in a release on Wednesday, though the automaker was careful to point out that “this decision is expressly not related to current events on the issue of diesel engines.”

A replacement for Vahland in North America has not yet been announced.

they promoted this guy last week and he jumps ship before even seeing his new office, to me that doesn't say this was a few rogue engineers, this is a guy who's running for his life, to me this says he know the whole company is one big pot of toxic sludge...

 

[5TAR]

On a side note... one website that deals in depreciation, has seen the % of depreciation on diesel VW models double or more since the scandal was brought to light, which sucks for the owners of these cars that were expecting to sell them down the road... Jetta TDI models have depreciated almost 7.9% since the scandal started compared to a 3.4% industry standard.

Only way for owners to look at it as a win is that they saved a lot from not having to go gasoline. With the amount of people impacted we're going to hear about some looking to VW to pay up.

 

[Civil]

European jurisdictions were already clamping down on diesel. Now they are only emboldened. With that being restricted so much, I think that diesel has definitely seen its best days behind it.

The revelation last month of Volkswagen’s deception, which involved fitting diesel engines with software to cheat U.S. checks on NOx emissions, has left Europe rushing to address weaknesses in its regulatory system. The commission, the 28-nation EU’s executive arm, aims for the bloc’s governments to vote on its proposal for tougher tests by the end of October. A weighted majority of EU governments is needed for any proposal on real-driving emissions, or RDE, to be approved.

Paris is trying to ban diesel vehicles by 2020 in the downtown core. It will just make the market for diesel smaller if policies like these catch on.

 

[Tim]

idd decisions were made at the top
completely sure about this


I'd give money to hear Vahland speak freely

 

[Pinetop]

On a side note... one website that deals in depreciation, has seen the % of depreciation on diesel VW models double or more since the scandal was brought to light, which sucks for the owners of these cars that were expecting to sell them down the road... Jetta TDI models have depreciated almost 7.9% since the scandal started compared to a 3.4% industry standard.

I know what my next winter beater will be...

 

[RobbJK88]

I know what my next winter beater will be...

Right? German cars already had crap for resale values, hence why i've looked at Audis that are only about 3 years old and they're in the low 20s range. This scandal is going to make their diesel cars super affordable used.

 

[Pinetop]

European jurisdictions were already clamping down on diesel. Now they are only emboldened. With that being restricted so much, I think that diesel has definitely seen its best days behind it.

Paris is trying to ban diesel vehicles by 2020 in the downtown core. It will just make the market for diesel smaller if policies like these catch on.

You're insane if you think diesel will die. It might not be the fuel de rigueur but try getting a ship across the ocean without marine diesel, try getting groceries to your local market without a tractor trailer, try building an apartment, roads, subways, whatever without diesel...

its cheap and it punches above its weight...

The only thing European jurisdictions need to clamp down are is their testing methods. Diesel itself isn't the culprit, the people who are culpable are the ones who created the environment for cheating (hint it wasn't VW)

You get NOx increasing when you need to lean out the fuel (which was done in order to meet mileage targets, thats probabaly more of a marketing thing then anything) The reason cars pass on the test cycle is that they use more fuel to produce less NOx, which sure it ruins mileage but its great for emissions.

So what do we want excellent emissions or excellent mileage? Because at the end of the day diesels are still sporting north of 40% thermal efficiency and thats a fact...

We want to talk about how terrible all this extra NOx is... then why don't we stop burning coal in all our power plants, because NOx accounts for some 80% of coal fired emissions... remember how great electric cars are... well their 'fuel' seems to contain more NOx emissions then a diesel tail pipe, OH FUQ don't tell the Teslarati

 

[RobbJK88]

You're insane if you think diesel will die. It might not be the fuel de rigueur but try getting a ship across the ocean without marine diesel, try getting groceries to your local market without a tractor trailer, try building an apartment, roads, subways, whatever without diesel...

its cheap and it punches above its weight...

The only thing European jurisdictions need to clamp down are is their testing methods. Diesel itself isn't the culprit, the people who are culpable are the ones who created the environment for cheating (hint it wasn't VW)

You get NOx increasing when you need to lean out the fuel (which was done in order to meet mileage targets, thats probabaly more of a marketing thing then anything) The reason cars pass on the test cycle is that they use more fuel to produce less NOx, which sure it ruins mileage but its great for emissions.

So what do we want excellent emissions or excellent mileage? Because at the end of the day diesels are still sporting north of 40% thermal efficiency and thats a fact...

We want to talk about how terrible all this extra NOx is... then why don't we stop burning coal in all our power plants, because NOx accounts for some 80% of coal fired emissions... remember how great electric cars are... well their 'fuel' seems to contain more NOx emissions then a diesel tail pipe, OH FUQ don't tell the Teslarati

I think he might have meant diesel passenger vehicles like the ones VW makes... i don't think he meant ALL Diesel.... meaning light duty/heavy duty trucks, semis, farm equipment and such would still operate with diesel engines... just the passenger vehicles like cars and SUVs wouldn't have diesel anymore.

 

[Pinetop]

I think he might have meant diesel passenger vehicles like the ones VW makes... i don't think he meant ALL Diesel.... meaning light duty/heavy duty trucks, semis, farm equipment and such would still operate with diesel engines... just the passenger vehicles like cars and SUVs wouldn't have diesel anymore.

diesel still provides a more complete burn then gasoline. That's what thermal efficiency is. diesel still packs more energy per gallon then gasoline.

 

[RobbJK88]

diesel still provides a more complete burn then gasoline. That's what thermal efficiency is. diesel still packs more energy per gallon then gasoline.

I'm not saying it doesn't... and hence why it's great in large format applications like trunks and farm equipment etc....

But with the ever growing EPA standards not only here but in other parts of the world it's getting harder for these big automakers even to get the same type of performance out of a diesel engine while still lawfully adhering to the clean air standards...

I just think overall diesel may be a dying breed when it comes to passenger cars. It'll be around a long time in other applications, but for passenger cars electric, hybrid and advances in petrol engines have alot more potential behind them, unless VW or another group can come up with new tech that changes the viability of diesel.

Side note: The brand new CEO/President of VW American Region (US, Canada, Mexico) resigned after only 2 weeks in the position... he hadn't even officially started. More setbacks for poor VW.

 

[Tim]

a carjournalist I know last told me
'diesel won't evolve much more
it's almost reach it's peak in evolution
while petrol still has a lot more margin up there'

 

[4Tires]

I know what my next winter beater will be...

Will owners sell theirs now that it's depreciating more or just hold on to it? I would like a winter beater too.